GPS Speed Limiter Law

Good post, super. The overwhelming majority of fatal accidents I have been to have involved excessive speed. Not going 5 or 10 miles over the limit, but going over 100 miles per hour in a 55 mph zone, running a red light at 70 miles per hour, and so on. There are people that drive like absolute psychopaths, and when these people crash they and others get hurt very badly. Innocent motorists don't expect to be clobbered by someone doing triple the speed limit. Hopefully the ISA makes its way to all 50 states sooner rather than later.
I thought at first you wrote "the overwhelming majority of fatal accidents I have been in involved excessive speed." And I was like, "dude, if you've had enough accidents to speak of an overwhelming majority, maybe you're the psychopath." LOL.

Would you get called if there's a fatal accident that doesn't present a fire risk? Like if a car mows down a pedestrian in a residential neighborhood? I ask because it's possible that you have something of a skewed sample, given that you're likely called to the scene for the most explosive accidents, so to speak. I also suspect that would be a second-order effect at most, and your overall conclusion about the role of speed in fatal accidents is on the mark if not precisely accurate (which isn't really a realistic goal anyway).
 
That manual override isn't worth much in a reactive situation.

I still get this computer interference in place of human judgment thing that makes me uncomfortable. It's not that I have some overwhelming respect for it but I damned sure do respect the right to have it. I don't mind monitoring speed but not a fan of forced outside control.
My thought is you have the limiter, as well as the ability to briefly surge for emergencies like needing to get past a merging vehicle simply by pressing the accelerator. The manual override would be for a time when you need more time over the speed limit like driving to the hospital.
 
I thought at first you wrote "the overwhelming majority of fatal accidents I have been in involved excessive speed." And I was like, "dude, if you've had enough accidents to speak of an overwhelming majority, maybe you're the psychopath." LOL.

Would you get called if there's a fatal accident that doesn't present a fire risk? Like if a car mows down a pedestrian in a residential neighborhood? I ask because it's possible that you have something of a skewed sample, given that you're likely called to the scene for the most explosive accidents, so to speak. I also suspect that would be a second-order effect at most, and your overall conclusion about the role of speed in fatal accidents is on the mark if not precisely accurate (which isn't really a realistic goal anyway).
Yes, we respond to any accident with potential for injury. We are all required to be cross trained as EMTs (minimum) or Paramedics, and carry medical equipment and medications on the fire trucks. For most vehicle accidents we provide medical care to the patients/victims long before the ambulance can get there.
 
I can’t believe NC still allows drivers to have a phone in their hand while driving.
Laws do not matter. Georgia is a hands free state, you still see it all the time.

I did see one person get pulled over for using the phone while driving.
 
Yes, we respond to any accident with potential for injury. We are all required to be cross trained as EMTs (minimum) or Paramedics, and carry medical equipment and medications on the fire trucks. For most vehicle accidents we provide medical care to the patients/victims long before the ambulance can get there.
Interesting. I had no idea. I guess "separation of powers" isn't really a thing among emergency responders. Was it always like this, or is it a fairly recent development that fire fighters are also EMTs? LOL, not *always* -- there weren't EMTs in the 19th century. But you know what I mean.
 
I have no doubt that speed traps exist, but where I live whenever the speed limit is changed the DOT and authorities post the reasons why. Without exception the limit changes have been tied to fatal or serious injury accidents on that stretch of road caused by excessive speed. Often the speed limits decrease on major roads when they enter areas that are prone to a lot of pedestrian traffic.
And I can understand that. We often see stop lights or other changes to addresses high accident rates.

Not this one. 😁

Also, there are several roads i drive on where the speed limit is a roller coaster, up and down again and again. This incisive inconsistency causes issues also.

Another thing, I hate seeing people sped in parking lots and neighborhoods, where the risk is much greater. The 14 seconds they save getting out of the neighborhood or to a parking place isn't worth the risk.
 
Interesting. I had no idea. I guess "separation of powers" isn't really a thing among emergency responders. Was it always like this, or is it a fairly recent development that fire fighters are also EMTs? LOL, not *always* -- there weren't EMTs in the 19th century. But you know what I mean.

Cross-trained Firefighter/EMTs or Firefighter/Paramedics are about 60 years old now. Prior to the 1960s, "EMS" as we know it wasn't really a think in the United States. There was essentially no emergent medical care rendered in the prehospital environment. Patients were picked up and transported to the hospital either by the funeral homes in hearses or by the police in paddy wagons. Nothing was done for them en route.

Emergent prehospital medical care started in several places in the United States in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Most notably, Pittsburgh, Miami, and Los Angeles County. In Pittsburgh, a physician trained a crew of Black men to be among the first Paramedics in the country and founded the "Freedom House" ambulance service. These people were trained to start IVs, administer medications, treat trauma, and so on in the Black neighborhoods of Pittsburgh that were underserved by existing emergency services. They did such a great job that even the White people started asking for Freedom House to respond because they knew that was the only way that they would get medical care. At the same time the Los Angeles County Fire Department, under the direction of an Emergency Department physician, trained a small number of Firefighters as Paramedics and had them initiate medical treatment at the scene of an emergency. This was popularized by the TV show "Emergency!". Simultaneously, Dr. Eugene Nagel cross-trained firefighters from the Miami-Dade Fire Department as Paramedics and experienced positive results.

After "Emergency!" raised awareness to the effectiveness of actual EMS services, they rapidly spread across the country. Each state developed and regulated its EMS services a little bit differently. In places out west, it was popular for the fire departments to run EMS in its entirety as no other service wanted the responsibility. In North Carolina, EMS was regulated to the counties which is why there are a lot of county-run EMS services here. Regardless, across the country it was soon realized that fire departments were very well positioned to respond to medical calls because the fire stations and personnel were already deployed so that they could get anywhere in their jurisdiction within about 5 minutes. So, firefighters were cross-trained as EMTs and Paramedics and medical equipment was added to the trucks. Nowadays, in municipal and suburban departments approximately 50-70% of the call volume for fire departments is for medical emergencies. The firefighters typically arrive on scene first and can assess, treat, and stabilize the patients. When the ambulance arrives, care is transferred and for critical patients the firefighters can ride in to the hospital to assist with patient care or drive the ambulance to the hospital so that both EMS crew members can be in the back with the patient.
 
Cross-trained Firefighter/EMTs or Firefighter/Paramedics are about 60 years old now. Prior to the 1960s, "EMS" as we know it wasn't really a think in the United States. There was essentially no emergent medical care rendered in the prehospital environment. Patients were picked up and transported to the hospital either by the funeral homes in hearses or by the police in paddy wagons. Nothing was done for them en route.

Emergent prehospital medical care started in several places in the United States in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Most notably, Pittsburgh, Miami, and Los Angeles County. In Pittsburgh, a physician trained a crew of Black men to be among the first Paramedics in the country and founded the "Freedom House" ambulance service. These people were trained to start IVs, administer medications, treat trauma, and so on in the Black neighborhoods of Pittsburgh that were underserved by existing emergency services. They did such a great job that even the White people started asking for Freedom House to respond because they knew that was the only way that they would get medical care. At the same time the Los Angeles County Fire Department, under the direction of an Emergency Department physician, trained a small number of Firefighters as Paramedics and had them initiate medical treatment at the scene of an emergency. This was popularized by the TV show "Emergency!". Simultaneously, Dr. Eugene Nagel cross-trained firefighters from the Miami-Dade Fire Department as Paramedics and experienced positive results.

After "Emergency!" raised awareness to the effectiveness of actual EMS services, they rapidly spread across the country. Each state developed and regulated its EMS services a little bit differently. In places out west, it was popular for the fire departments to run EMS in its entirety as no other service wanted the responsibility. In North Carolina, EMS was regulated to the counties which is why there are a lot of county-run EMS services here. Regardless, across the country it was soon realized that fire departments were very well positioned to respond to medical calls because the fire stations and personnel were already deployed so that they could get anywhere in their jurisdiction within about 5 minutes. So, firefighters were cross-trained as EMTs and Paramedics and medical equipment was added to the trucks. Nowadays, in municipal and suburban departments approximately 50-70% of the call volume for fire departments is for medical emergencies. The firefighters typically arrive on scene first and can assess, treat, and stabilize the patients. When the ambulance arrives, care is transferred and for critical patients the firefighters can ride in to the hospital to assist with patient care or drive the ambulance to the hospital so that both EMS crew members can be in the back with the patient.
That's extremely interesting. I've noticed for a long time in Mecklenburg that firefighters are almost always first on the scene, WAY before police or stand-alone paramedics.
 
Cross-trained Firefighter/EMTs or Firefighter/Paramedics are about 60 years old now. Prior to the 1960s, "EMS" as we know it wasn't really a think in the United States. There was essentially no emergent medical care rendered in the prehospital environment. Patients were picked up and transported to the hospital either by the funeral homes in hearses or by the police in paddy wagons. Nothing was done for them en route.

Emergent prehospital medical care started in several places in the United States in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Most notably, Pittsburgh, Miami, and Los Angeles County. In Pittsburgh, a physician trained a crew of Black men to be among the first Paramedics in the country and founded the "Freedom House" ambulance service. These people were trained to start IVs, administer medications, treat trauma, and so on in the Black neighborhoods of Pittsburgh that were underserved by existing emergency services. They did such a great job that even the White people started asking for Freedom House to respond because they knew that was the only way that they would get medical care. At the same time the Los Angeles County Fire Department, under the direction of an Emergency Department physician, trained a small number of Firefighters as Paramedics and had them initiate medical treatment at the scene of an emergency. This was popularized by the TV show "Emergency!". Simultaneously, Dr. Eugene Nagel cross-trained firefighters from the Miami-Dade Fire Department as Paramedics and experienced positive results.

After "Emergency!" raised awareness to the effectiveness of actual EMS services, they rapidly spread across the country. Each state developed and regulated its EMS services a little bit differently. In places out west, it was popular for the fire departments to run EMS in its entirety as no other service wanted the responsibility. In North Carolina, EMS was regulated to the counties which is why there are a lot of county-run EMS services here. Regardless, across the country it was soon realized that fire departments were very well positioned to respond to medical calls because the fire stations and personnel were already deployed so that they could get anywhere in their jurisdiction within about 5 minutes. So, firefighters were cross-trained as EMTs and Paramedics and medical equipment was added to the trucks. Nowadays, in municipal and suburban departments approximately 50-70% of the call volume for fire departments is for medical emergencies. The firefighters typically arrive on scene first and can assess, treat, and stabilize the patients. When the ambulance arrives, care is transferred and for critical patients the firefighters can ride in to the hospital to assist with patient care or drive the ambulance to the hospital so that both EMS crew members can be in the back with the patient.
Wow. Lot to learn there. Just out of curiosity, how do you know all this? Was it part of the training, or just something you've read up on/learned over time. I'm not doubting you -- there are too many details here for it to be fabricated. It's just fairly esoteric and I'd be interested to know where the history comes from.
 
Wow. Lot to learn there. Just out of curiosity, how do you know all this? Was it part of the training, or just something you've read up on/learned over time. I'm not doubting you -- there are too many details here for it to be fabricated. It's just fairly esoteric and I'd be interested to know where the history comes from.

There's a module about the history of EMS in EMT and Paramedic programs, but that just scratches the surface. I've been doing this a long time and am a big history buff as it is, so I've had the opportunity to take deeper dives into a lot of this stuff. It helps explain why things are the way they are today. I actually just recently attended a great lecture about the Freedom House Paramedics not too long ago.
 
There's a module about the history of EMS in EMT and Paramedic programs, but that just scratches the surface. I've been doing this a long time and am a big history buff as it is, so I've had the opportunity to take deeper dives into a lot of this stuff. It helps explain why things are the way they are today. I actually just recently attended a great lecture about the Freedom House Paramedics not too long ago.
Cool. This is what I like about our message board, despite the flaws. Whenever I need to know something related to the history of EMTs, I know who to ask.

I'm not sure I will ever have a demand for that history, but Don Corleone wasn't sure he would need the services of the undertaker, either.
 
That's extremely interesting. I've noticed for a long time in Mecklenburg that firefighters are almost always first on the scene, WAY before police or stand-alone paramedics.

Yup. Part of that is by design, part of it is due to a nationwide shortage of EMS providers. Single-role EMS is a dead-end, burnout job. The average career length for someone in EMS is 5 years, and that stat is before COVID so it wouldn't surprise me if it is even shorter now. COVID did a number on EMS and there is a particular shortage of Paramedics as their training takes quite a bit longer than Basic EMT training. As someone who worked on an ambulance for a number of years, I can tell you that the job, while rewarding, is horrific for your mental and physical health and burnout is extremely common. While fire departments are also having a slightly difficult time with retention and recruitment, they still fare much better than stand-alone EMS agencies.

What that means is that in many places there is a shortage of EMS providers and by extension a shortage of ambulances. Structure fires require a lot of people to get on scene extremely quickly. In an urban environment like Charlotte, that might mean that the first unit should be on scene within 5 minutes of being dispatched and the entire first alarm (close to 25 people on at least 6 fire trucks) should be on scene within 12 minutes (I'm ballparking here, because I don't know the exact standards that Charlotte FD has, but most city departments have similar standards). A department that can get 25 people to any one location in 12 minutes will have a very easy time getting 4 people on a fire engine someplace within 5 minutes. This is beneficial to the taxpayer, as they are already paying taxes for fire suppression but now they get rapid emergency medical care from the existing people, trucks, and facilities as well. There are very few emergencies that require EMS to get 25 paramedics on scene for any reason, so EMS doesn't have the same response capabilities built in. That plus the major shortage of paramedics means that response times for ambulances can be lengthy.

The good thing about the cross-trained firefighter/EMTs being on scene is that they can not only initiate patient care but they can give EMS a heads up about what is going on so that units can be diverted if needed. For example, it is common for us to go to "fallen subject" calls to help grandma or grandpa up off of the floor. A lot of times EMS won't even send a unit to those calls due to all of their units being tied up on higher priority calls. If and when we get there and discover that grandma has a broken femur or is having a stroke, we can contact EMS, have the call recoded as higher priority and can get an ambulance there quickly. Otherwise those people might be waiting for upwards of 2 hours or longer.
 
Yup. Part of that is by design, part of it is due to a nationwide shortage of EMS providers. Single-role EMS is a dead-end, burnout job. The average career length for someone in EMS is 5 years, and that stat is before COVID so it wouldn't surprise me if it is even shorter now. COVID did a number on EMS and there is a particular shortage of Paramedics as their training takes quite a bit longer than Basic EMT training. As someone who worked on an ambulance for a number of years, I can tell you that the job, while rewarding, is horrific for your mental and physical health and burnout is extremely common. While fire departments are also having a slightly difficult time with retention and recruitment, they still fare much better than stand-alone EMS agencies.

What that means is that in many places there is a shortage of EMS providers and by extension a shortage of ambulances. Structure fires require a lot of people to get on scene extremely quickly. In an urban environment like Charlotte, that might mean that the first unit should be on scene within 5 minutes of being dispatched and the entire first alarm (close to 25 people on at least 6 fire trucks) should be on scene within 12 minutes (I'm ballparking here, because I don't know the exact standards that Charlotte FD has, but most city departments have similar standards). A department that can get 25 people to any one location in 12 minutes will have a very easy time getting 4 people on a fire engine someplace within 5 minutes. This is beneficial to the taxpayer, as they are already paying taxes for fire suppression but now they get rapid emergency medical care from the existing people, trucks, and facilities as well. There are very few emergencies that require EMS to get 25 paramedics on scene for any reason, so EMS doesn't have the same response capabilities built in. That plus the major shortage of paramedics means that response times for ambulances can be lengthy.

The good thing about the cross-trained firefighter/EMTs being on scene is that they can not only initiate patient care but they can give EMS a heads up about what is going on so that units can be diverted if needed. For example, it is common for us to go to "fallen subject" calls to help grandma or grandpa up off of the floor. A lot of times EMS won't even send a unit to those calls due to all of their units being tied up on higher priority calls. If and when we get there and discover that grandma has a broken femur or is having a stroke, we can contact EMS, have the call recoded as higher priority and can get an ambulance there quickly. Otherwise those people might be waiting for upwards of 2 hours or longer.
Thanks for the info
 
Also - what happens if like you are in an emergency and having to get to the hospital? Sometimes you get police escorts for things...what everyone would be in a hurry at a sensible 25 mph? And does this law apply to cop cars? A high speed chase where no one can catch up? LOL
 
There's a module about the history of EMS in EMT and Paramedic programs, but that just scratches the surface. I've been doing this a long time and am a big history buff as it is, so I've had the opportunity to take deeper dives into a lot of this stuff. It helps explain why things are the way they are today. I actually just recently attended a great lecture about the Freedom House Paramedics not too long ago.
I had never heard of the Freedom House Paramedics until they mentioned it on The Pitt. I've read a little about them, pretty interesting story.
 
Can we do something about the people driving in the center lane slower than both the speed limit and other traffic? Often using their phone.

I think studies have shown that driving faster than the speed limit, but at the same speed as other traffic, is safer than driving slower than the speed limit and other traffic.
 
One of the programs on WUNC has done at least two stories on the Freedom House Ambulance Service in the last 6-9 months.

It existed for about 8 years (1967-1975).

Mayor Flaherty, elected in 1970, didn’t like public/private partnerships. He was also tight with the police union; which didn’t want an independent ambulance/paramedic service. Mayor Flaherty helped kill the Freedom House Ambulance Service. Pittsburgh created an ambulance service; but, those well-trained black paramedics were quickly chased away.
 
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