Harry Golden of the Carolina Israelite, One of a Kind

[rodoheel]

Super in my opinion you are badly overreacting here man. The thread title is referencing the exact words that were used in a satirical article that was lampooning racism, not supporting it. Anyone who opens the thread will immediately see the article and see what the thread is about. I do not see how someone would read the thread title and think based on that alone that the OP is a raging racist, and even if they thought that they would immediately change their mind when seeing the thread.

 

[superrific]

Appreciate the comments. I’m very glad that some folks are reminded of the story of Harry Golden and that some were introduced to it here. Deddy would be happy.

You called your father "Deddy" and you're proud of it. Fine. Celebrate your identity. But what boggles the mind is that you think it makes you virtuous when really it just means you're old.

 

[superrific]

Super in my opinion you are badly overreacting here man. The thread title is referencing the exact words that were used in a satirical article that was lampooning racism, not supporting it. Anyone who opens the thread will immediately see the article and see what the thread is about. I do not see how someone would read the thread title and think based on that alone that the OP is a raging racist, and even if they thought that they would immediately change their mind when seeing the thread.

I didn't think db was a raging racist. I thought Harry Golden might be. And there is absolutely no fucking reason for us to have content on the front page that reminds people of lynchings. IT. SHOULD. NOT. BE. THERE.

I suggested that the thread title could be changed to keep the same meaning without the inflammatory connotations. And I was ignored. There is no reason why Golden's words, taken out of context to look monstrous, should be on the front page of this message board.

The fact that the thread can be opened and its contents discovered cuts in MY favor, not yours. See, I don't normally open these db memory dump threads and I had no intention of doing so -- until it just bugged me too much and I opened it. I mean, I guess that's a way to drive traffic but it's not right.

Oh, and super ignore is not an answer to this because lurkers can't use it. I don't login to the site from my phone. So if I 'm looking at it on my phone, there is no way to avoid this content. And while I could login, there are also lots of lurkers who don't, or don't want to, or maybe decide they don't want to join a forum talking about vertical negros.

You know what? [EDIT] I don't need this aggravation.

 

[donbosco]

You are obviously hurt by the title. Perhaps others are as well. I tell my students there are no bad questions or observations. For you I will change the title. Triggering you is not worth the history. I suspect that what you have ‘discovered’ about the name of Golden’s plan was not lost on he or his allies in The Civil Rights Movement.

I also appreciate your arbitration of my Progressive Bonifides. That certainly is something to ponder moving forward. It has never been a label I’ve applied to myself frankly.

As for my stories I’m a bit baffled but hardly concerned that they set you off (particularly my truthful spelling of what I called my father?). You probably should put me on ignore. Seems it would make this a happier place for you (and perhaps some others).

 

[superrific]

You are obviously hurt by the title. Perhaps others are as well. I tell my students there are no bad questions or observations. For you I will change the title. Triggering you is not worth the history. I suspect that what you have ‘discovered’ about the name of Golden’s plan was lost or he or his allies in The Civil Rights Movement.

I also appreciate your arbitration of my Progressive Bonifides. That certainly is something to ponder moving forward. It has never been a label I’ve applied to myself frankly.

As for my stories I’m a bit baffled but hardly concerned that they set you off (particularly my truthful spelling of what I called my father?). You probably should put me on ignore. Seems it would make this a happier place for you (and perhaps some others).

Your stories don't set me off. I just don't enjoy reading them because I can't relate to them in any way. That's fine. I have no claim to control the content on the board. You don't have to read my threads. I don't have to read yours.

The difference is that 1) my threads don't have incendiary titles like that showing up in the thread list, and 2) if anyone asked me to change a thread title because of its racist connotations, I would do it in a second. In fact, I've edited individual posts for that reason. And that's because not offending people is more important than my original choice of expression.

 

[superrific]

For you I will change the title.

And now it's a good title. It would make me consider opening the thread out of curiosity instead of anger. How easy was that? Two clicks and it was done. Could have been a no harm, no foul situation.

 

[SnoopRob]

All right, since y'all motherfuckers are doing it this way, I will say expressly what I had hoped would be implied.

What, exactly, do you think a "vertical negro" is? Perhaps if you already know the man's identity, you know. But otherwise, a "vertical negro" sounds like a black man hanging dead in a noose. I'm sure y'all have read or heard the type of language that the lynch mobs would use. "Vertical" would be a likely euphemism.

So here I am looking at the board, and a thread pops up with "Harry Golden And The Vertical Negro Plan." That sounds like a terror campaign involving public lynchings. And I don't think that image, of vertical negros, is something that our board should broadcast. So I kindly asked for a thread title change after realizing that wasn't what was discussed.

One would think that self-styled progressives would be care about the implications of their posts, and not do this MAGA "fuck your feelings" thing. But apparently not. So now live with the fact that you created a fucking thread that looks to all the world like a discussion of hanging black men dead from a tree. And I shouldn't have had to recount the gory details to get that done.

So GFY every single one of you geezers calling me out about this. Forget the acronym. GO. FUCK. YOURSELVES. AND. YOUR. RACIST. MOTHERFUCKING. LYNCHING. BULLSHIT.

Super, I generally like you and your posts, but you need to dial it back about 30 notches on this one.

Before this thread, I don't remember ever hearing of Harry Golden before (which sounds like it's my loss). I had no idea who he was or what the "vertical negro plan" was before I opened this thread. But I did open this thread and right there in the OP is all the information I needed to understand what was discussed.

There's no hidden meaning here and no "read between the lines" BS. The thread title is simply the title of the story being discussed.

There's nothing racist about the thread title. It is certainly race adjacent because it is social satire covering race and racial practices, but it's not racist. There is absolutely nothing about it that's racist. In fact, the story and the identical thread title is anti-racist in that it calls out racism.

You jumped to an assumption based on your reading of the thread title, but that reading turned out to be completely wrong. In that case, you should have read the thread, realized your initial assumption was wrong, and kept right on going. But you're way out of bounds trying to police the entire thread based on your misunderstanding of a thread based on your reading of the thread title and then calling out others for being racist because you jumped to inaccurate conclusions. Simply put, you're 100% in the wrong here and you really should back down on this one.

 

[SmilingJack]

Just curious Super did sarcasm about racism/racist begin with Dave Chappelle or did he perhaps have some access to the previous folks calling it out from Twain to apparently Golden in their way in their day.
This Clayton Bigsby clip must have made your head explode too. It made me laugh till I cried!

 

[superrific]

Super, I generally like you and your posts, but you need to dial it back about 30 notches on this one.

Before this thread, I don't remember ever hearing of Harry Golden before (which sounds like it's my loss). I had no idea who he was or what the "vertical negro plan" was before I opened this thread. But I did open this thread and right there in the OP is all the information I needed to understand what was discussed.

There's no hidden meaning here and no "read between the lines" BS. The thread title is simply the title of the story being discussed.

There's nothing racist about the thread title. It is certainly race adjacent because it is social satire covering race and racial practices, but it's not racist. There is absolutely nothing about it that's racist. In fact, the story and the identical thread title is anti-racist in that it calls out racism.

You jumped to an assumption based on your reading of the thread title, but that reading turned out to be completely wrong. In that case, you should have read the thread, realized your initial assumption was wrong, and kept right on going. But you're way out of bounds trying to police the entire thread based on your misunderstanding of a thread based on your reading of the thread title and then calling out others for being racist because you jumped to inaccurate conclusions. Simply put, you're 100% in the wrong here and you really should back down on this one.

You aren't even getting the point. Try thinking about it again. This time, pay attention to what I actually wrote. None of your last paragraph is accurate, and it bears little resemblance to what I wrote.

 

[superrific]

Just curious Super did sarcasm about racism/racist begin with Dave Chappelle or did he perhaps have some access to the previous folks calling it out from Twain to apparently Golden in their way in their day.
This Clayton Bigsby clip must have made your head explode too. It made me laugh till I cried!

You ain't Dave Chappelle and nobody else here is either. But more importantly, try reading and thinking about what I actually wrote, and not your fabrication.

 

[grimes70]

What does that have to do with anything? Oh, there's one historical marker for a dude somewhere? Ever been to NYC? You can find markers like this all sorts of places. In Central Park, there's a whole monument to some guy named King Jagiello. Do you know who that is? Of course you don't. He's there because a Polish guy decided to make a statue of him for the World's Far. Was King Jagiello a good guy? I don't fucking know, because I don't know who he is, because I'M NOT POLISH. So sure there are probably markers all over the south for some minor local figures but that doesn't mean the person is well-known outside of your little coterie.

Our little coterie here on the ZZLP happen to be people who, for a large part, grew up or are otherwise connected to, North Carolina. I grew up in Raleigh. Golden may have been Charlotte based but I knew of him as a teenager. If @donbosco wants to start a thread relating to a North Carolina figure of note, he certainly has more standing than someone who has thread bare ties, if any, to NC. If in fact, the post reaches people who do not know of this figure, then it is well worth the telling.

Since you are such a nitpicking turd, you should be careful when using a term like no one. I, and I'm sure others, may take that literally causing us to have a mental collapse upon thinking of ouselves as a nobody. You should relate.

Stick to your TLDR legal opinions if the topic is something you don't know what the f*ck you are talking about.

And really, try to get off your smug condescending 'I am so much smarter than all of you' attitude and try to perhaps learn something new.

PS thank you for mentioning King Jagiello. I learned something new and I'm not Polish!

 

[donbosco]

I too learned about King Jagiello and am glad. I’ve evacuated to NYC and actually told my wife that I was going to do some wandering today. Perhaps I’ll head out to Central Park and find the double-bladed monarch.

 

[SnoopRob]

You aren't even getting the point. Try thinking about it again. This time, pay attention to what I actually wrote. None of your last paragraph is accurate, and it bears little resemblance to what I wrote.

There's a shortish saying that I like...

"If you're out and about and someone is a jerk to you, then you likely met a jerk. If you're out and about and everyone is a jerk, then likely you're the jerk."

In this case, you're the only one who has a problem here. And you think the thread title should change because you have a problem with something that everyone else who has read it has no problem with.

On a board like this where there are plenty of great posters who typically engage well with a variety of topics and are willing to call out BS when they see it, then if everyone disagrees with you it's likely not that everyone else is the problem.

 

[superrific]

And really, try to get off your smug condescending 'I am so much smarter than all of you' attitude and try to perhaps learn something new.

PS thank you for mentioning King Jagiello. I learned something new and I'm not Polish!

Not smarter than all of you. Just you.

 

[superrific]

In this case, you're the only one who has a problem here. And you think the thread title should change because you have a problem with something that everyone else who has read it has no problem with.

I am not the only one who has a problem. There's a whole group of lurkers who have no voice and possibly less interest in reading the board. And the vast majority of posters have not, in fact, expressed themselves. And if you think I'm a jerk, fine. It doesn't make me wrong.

I don't need this shit any more.

 

[donbosco]

More about Harry Golden: "In this episode I talk to writer Kimberly Marlowe Hartnett about her book “Carolina Israelite: How Harry Golden Made Us Care about Jews, the South, and Civil Rights“; the first comprehensive biography of Jewish American writer and humorist Harry Golden."

Podcast, "How To Ruin Dinner,": Episode #4: Harry Golden the Carolina Israelite: A Conversation with Kimberly Marlowe Hartnett – How to Ruin Dinner

 

[SnoopRob]

More about Harry Golden: "In this episode I talk to writer Kimberly Marlowe Hartnett about her book “Carolina Israelite: How Harry Golden Made Us Care about Jews, the South, and Civil Rights“; the first comprehensive biography of Jewish American writer and humorist Harry Golden."

Podcast, "How To Ruin Dinner,": Episode #4: Harry Golden the Carolina Israelite: A Conversation with Kimberly Marlowe Hartnett – How to Ruin Dinner

Thanks for the links.

 

[Ddseddse]

I am not the only one who has a problem. There's a whole group of lurkers who have no voice and possibly less interest in reading the board. And the vast majority of posters have not, in fact, expressed themselves. And if you think I'm a jerk, fine. It doesn't make me wrong.

I don't need this shit any more.

Sorry Super, you're wrong on this one. I appreciate your the perspective you bring to this board, enjoy engaging with you, and have a rooting interest in your continued participation here but, man, are you hemorrhaging goodwill.

For a host of reasons there was no chance any of us were going to take DonBosco's post the wrong way, including idle curiosity, reading comprehension, DonBosco's posting history, the phantasmagorical flight of fantasy it would take to think the post was nefarious, etc.

My advice is to take the L on this one and apologize to DonBosco.

 

[donbosco]

More about Harry Golden: "In this episode I talk to writer Kimberly Marlowe Hartnett about her book “Carolina Israelite: How Harry Golden Made Us Care about Jews, the South, and Civil Rights“; the first comprehensive biography of Jewish American writer and humorist Harry Golden."

Podcast, "How To Ruin Dinner,": Episode #4: Harry Golden the Carolina Israelite: A Conversation with Kimberly Marlowe Hartnett – How to Ruin Dinner

PS...the interview does not turn to Harry Golden's life until about the 13 minute mark.

 

[nycfan]

Speak for yourself.

Actually, don't. You talk too fucking much. Do you have to ruin every thread on this board? Isn't there an LSAT somewhere you could be taking?

Using this comment as a quote not to call out any one poster but to request that we try to maintain a more civil tone even when we very deeply disagree.

I appreciate DB being constructive by changing the thread title even if he disagrees with Super’s concerns about how the original title could be misconstrued.

I’ve been tied up outside the board the last few days, so was unaware that tempers were flaring about this thread. I really do appreciate efforts to allow for a wide range of ideals and discussions and also to consider how well meaning posts may offend others.

Carry on with as much consideration and civility as you all can spare.