Health insurers are (sort of) the good guys (really!)

[uncgriff]

I didn't dig any hole. Nothing I said on this thread is wrong. The only thing that happened is that an asshole poster decided to insult me for no reason. Also, keep in mind that doctors don't know shit about health care economics. Physician participation in these debates is consistently mocked by health policy people, who have to deal with their unreflective generalizations from their own experience being constantly asserted as fact.

And this guy is an employee of a medical provider. Gee, I wonder why he doesn't like a thread that doesn't worship providers. If I said anything incorrect, he can express his opinion to the contrary. But he didn't. He just attacked me.

Lol

All I said was you like the sound of your own words.

Which is objectively true.

 

[aGDevil2k]

Also, keep in mind that doctors don't know shit about health care economics.

You make blanket comments like that and wonder why people "attack" you??

 

[superrific]

You make blanket comments like that and wonder why people "attack" you??

I have edited the statement to:

Also, keep in mind that doctors don't know shit about health care economics simply by being doctors. Medical training includes no economics training.

which is what I meant but did not say. And that, right there, is the fucking truth.

 

[superrific]

Lol

All I said was you like the sound of your own words.

Which is objectively true.

That is not remotely all that you said. And it's not objectively true either. And go fuck yourself. I've never done anything to you.

 

[superrific]

BECAUSE IT IS FOR PROFIT.

And that profit is unnecessary. Profits are beneficial for the need to reinvest. Not for making as much money as possible. Insurance has no need for profits!!!!!!

That's not much of a counter-argument. You're basically just railing against capitalism now. Fine. That's a position. It's just not a helpful one for understanding our mixed-but-predominantly capitalist society and economy.

Nobody has any *need* for profits. Profits are what incentivizes people to produce and innovate. Without profits, markets can't generate information, which is one of their most important functions.

 

[aGDevil2k]

That's not much of a counter-argument. You're basically just railing against capitalism now. Fine. That's a position. It's just not a helpful one for understanding our mixed-but-predominantly capitalist society and economy.

Nobody has any *need* for profits. Profits are what incentivizes people to produce and innovate. Without profits, markets can't generate information, which is one of their most important functions.

Bullshit.

I am making an argument for the differentiation of for profit and non-profit sectors. Insurance should be non-profit. That is NOT against capitalism.

Aren't you a lawyer, anyhow? They teach a lot of econ in law school?

 

[superrific]

Bullshit.

I am making an argument for the differentiation of for profit and non-profit sectors. Insurance should be non-profit. That is NOT against capitalism.

Aren't you a lawyer, anyhow? They teach a lot of econ in law school?

I've studied lots of things over the years. I have three degrees in different fields. And I was a law professor a lot longer than I was a lawyer, and professors learn a lot of different things while they are professors. Look, it's simple: if you have any objection on the merits to what I wrote, please feel free. We can have that conversation. And then my understanding of economics will be put to the test. You can see for yourself if I'm a fraud or if I know what I'm talking about.

[edit to add: and law schools do teach econ. Every law school has at least one law & econ course, and often they have more. There are also a lot of economists who are cross-appointed with the law school, and law professors are in frequent dialogue with economists on a number of topics. That's especially true in corporate law, which was my field. I didn't teach law & econ where I taught, but I did fill in for the guy a few times when he was dealing with health problems]


When you say profits are beneficial for the need to reinvest, do you mean for health insurance in particular or is that how you see profits as a general matter? If it's the latter, I disagree. Profit motives do considerably more than provide capital for reinvestment. That's not at all to say that "greed is good" (though in that specific instance, Gordon Gekko wasn't wrong), or that the market solves all problems.

As for health insurers being non-profit, they used to be. Read about the history of Blue Cross/Blue Shield. Until 1994, all BCBS licensees had to be non-profit. They relaxed the rule in 1994, for a number of reasons. Some BCBS licensees formed bigger companies to better compete in the marketplace.

The problem with non-profits is that they don't do what people think. Well, some of the time I suppose, but non-profit status is less salutary than we might intuit. They typically do not lower prices. They just hoard cash because there is nobody to distribute to. And they pay their executives a lot of money because, again, there are no investors to push back against them.

Many states -- perhaps virtually all of them by now -- have a corporate form called a "b-corp", short for "beneficial corporation." B-corps are like non-profits v 2.0. They are allowed to write enforceable socially beneficial purposes into their charter that the board of directors must follow (this is typically not the case for corps), but they still raise capital and operate like for-profits. They aren't used all that much, but lots of corporate governance people see them as an improvement on the old technology of non-profits.

 

[ZenMode]

I'm not an expert, but I don't see how insurance companies are not a major contributor to Healthcare cost.

I've spoken with my doctors and they talk about the extra staff needed yo deal with and file insurance claims. The headache of deal I ng with insurance companies.

I've also had near family members recieve major cost savings by paying cash for their procedures instead of using insurance.

Just looking at the overhead of an insurance company, how does it not add cost.

"I've also had near family members recieve major cost savings by paying cash for their procedures instead of using insurance."

Yep. We stopped paying for my wife's mammograms through insurance because it costs us more. The problem is that you can't tell them you have insurance. Once they know, they have to charge through insurance.

 

[UNCatTech]

"I've also had near family members receive major cost savings by paying cash for their procedures instead of using insurance."

Yep. We stopped paying for my wife's mammograms through insurance because it costs us more. The problem is that you can't tell them you have insurance. Once they know, they have to charge through insurance.

My dad didn't have insurance for a while. When he secured insurance, he went to fill his medications at the pharmacy and the cost was higher. The pharmacist said that he routinely saw this where some drugs you save money and some the cost are bumped up. So, the pharmacist only ran the cheaper medications through the insurance and the others my dad paid cash for.

My FIL needed a cohomotopy he's covered under VA insurance, but they couldn't see him for 6 months. Because he was worried, he and wanted to do it sooner, he went to a couple of local doctors, and they quoted him a very high number. Don't remember the exact quote. A friend of his told him to talk to the doctor and tell them he would not be using insurance, so he did. The doctor said if he paid cash in advance, he could do it for about 25% of the original quote, everything included. So, he paid cash and had the procedure.

I've read about others with similar stories.

Additionally, my wife gets some of her medications through cost plus and saves money over our insurance, and we have "Good" insurance.

I've watched so many documentaries, listened to podcasts, etc. that talk about the waste in the medical industry. We should be able to reduce everyone's cost.

Even Mark Cuban has spoken about the hooks that some have in the medication supply chain. He says that they don't add value, only cost, yet his company is still having to work to try and get these people our of the supply chain.