Helene & Milton - Political fallout | FEMA steps back
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“Reporter”?: “… a lot of people here are looking to you to save them and bring them relief and what better way to win the White House in two weeks. I know that you’re happy with early results [but are NC officials doing enough to help people vote]?
Trump: “Well I’m not hearing the good things about the governor here like I’m hearing about the governor in Georgia … I don’t really know the Governor here but I’m not hearing that he’s done a very good job. … And certainly you all hear the same stories we hear that FEMA has done a very poor job. Our FEMA, when we had a problem, we did record uhhhh rescues. The job that we do that FEMA did under the Trump Administration was really incredible but they had spent, in all fairness to FEMA, they had spent hundreds of millions of dollars doing other things, things that I don’t think … they were not supposed to be spending the money on taking in illegal migrants, maybe so they could vote in elections cause a lot of people are saying that’s why they are doing it, I don’t know, I hope that’s not why they’re doing it.
Now they’re saying they don’t have enough money, they need a special vote, a special session and I’m in favor of that but somebody has to get back to why did they spend HUNDREDS of millions on something they were not supposed to be spending it on, Ok.
aGDevil2k
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Yeah that is no reporter asking that question
SnoopRob
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You doubt Newsmax or OAN or other right-wing media folk wouldn't ask that question?
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And they never seem to consider the alternatives. What if no water is released and a dam fails?
SnoopRob
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You don't need to think about alternatives when you can just be angry about whatever is done and there is any negative effect at all.
Mulberry Heel
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Agreed, but these are the same people who honestly believe that FEMA has no money left to help them because they've given it all away to illegal immigrants, and that the government directed Helene to devastate the NC mountains so the feds could buy up all the land for lithium mines, even though NC's lithium belt lies well to the east in the Piedmont, not far from Charlotte. When you've lost touch with reality to that extent then pretty much any accusation seems true, no matter how insane.
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“… Ivan Raiklin has dubbed himself former President Donald Trump’s "secretary of retribution."
Raiklin was a speaker this past weekend at a Christian Nationalist rally in Selma [NC]. He told the crowd the election would be rigged, and the only way to protect it is to pressure Republican state lawmakers to intervene and throw out the results if Trump doesn’t win.
“They have the political obligation to remedy an illegitimate election,” Raiklin told the crowd.
Raiklin did not respond to WRAL News’ interview request.
Raiklin told rally attendees that Helene’s destruction provides a rationale because it will cast doubt on the election results.
“Post offices were shut down to send in mail-in ballots, right?” Raiklin said. “Is that going to impact those western counties?"
State lawmakers passed a law earlier this month easing election rules and making it easier to vote for people in the 25 counties under the federal disaster declaration due to Helene. …”
www.wral.com
Raiklin was a speaker this past weekend at a Christian Nationalist rally in Selma [NC]. He told the crowd the election would be rigged, and the only way to protect it is to pressure Republican state lawmakers to intervene and throw out the results if Trump doesn’t win.
“They have the political obligation to remedy an illegitimate election,” Raiklin told the crowd.
Raiklin did not respond to WRAL News’ interview request.
Raiklin told rally attendees that Helene’s destruction provides a rationale because it will cast doubt on the election results.
“Post offices were shut down to send in mail-in ballots, right?” Raiklin said. “Is that going to impact those western counties?"
State lawmakers passed a law earlier this month easing election rules and making it easier to vote for people in the 25 counties under the federal disaster declaration due to Helene. …”
Right-wing political activists call for NC lawmakers to decide 2024 presidential election results after Hurricane Helene's impact
A group of activists, led by Ivan Raiklin, is calling for North Carolina's election results to be thrown out, claiming that Hurricane Helene's damage has made it impossible to have a secure election.
www.wral.com
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GIFT LINK —> https://wapo.st/3UkrWR3
[OR
Two local women set up an ad hoc disaster supply point in a Lake Lure parking lot. Then the C.H.U.D.s came. ]
How a conspiracy-fueled group got a foothold in this hurricane-battered town
Over the course of 11 days, a supermarket parking lot became a snapshot of the chaos that can unfold in some corners of post disaster-America.[OR
Two local women set up an ad hoc disaster supply point in a Lake Lure parking lot. Then the C.H.U.D.s came. ]
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“… A group called Veterans on Patrol showed up in Rutherford County late on the night of Oct. 11, just four people with no supplies. But their leader, Lewis Arthur, came with a lot of promises and a big vision, which he said was sent from God: a three-year plan to help this lakeside community and others around here bounce back …
At first, it did seem like a Godsend, Yoxall, Harris and other residents said. They started organizing the piles of diapers, boxes of canned food and mounds of winter clothes. But as soon as Yoxall, a retired Army nurse, and Arthur got to talking, and he started telling her about his work fighting cartels at the border, about his need for armed security, she got a bad feeling.
… What she and others didn’t know yet was that Veterans on Patrol is an anti-government group steeped in conspiracy theories and that its leader has a well-documented history of embedding in communities to launch missions related to migrants or purported child trafficking, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Western States Center, two watchdog groups.
And that the group was motivated to come to this small town because they believed that the government was using the hurricane to move people here off lithium-rich land and stop them from getting it back, according to the group’s posts on Telegram, the messaging service.
“Hurricane Helene was an act of war perpetuated by the United States Military”; a “land grab” responsible for “murdering hundreds, if not thousands, of Americans,” the group said on Oct. 3.
That same day, it launched its disaster deployment operation, stating they were “coming to the aid of those who will not sell, have stolen, or be restricted their property” and to replace the Federal Emergency Management Agency.
… And in the mix of all that, an armed man from a town over, also fueled by viral, anti-government misinformation, joined the fray.
He showed up right when Veterans on Patrol did, Yoxall and two other volunteers said, joining their Sunday prayer circle.
Then he talked about “hunting FEMA,” she said.
Police eventually arrested and charged him with “going armed to the terror of the public.” …”
At first, it did seem like a Godsend, Yoxall, Harris and other residents said. They started organizing the piles of diapers, boxes of canned food and mounds of winter clothes. But as soon as Yoxall, a retired Army nurse, and Arthur got to talking, and he started telling her about his work fighting cartels at the border, about his need for armed security, she got a bad feeling.
… What she and others didn’t know yet was that Veterans on Patrol is an anti-government group steeped in conspiracy theories and that its leader has a well-documented history of embedding in communities to launch missions related to migrants or purported child trafficking, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Western States Center, two watchdog groups.
And that the group was motivated to come to this small town because they believed that the government was using the hurricane to move people here off lithium-rich land and stop them from getting it back, according to the group’s posts on Telegram, the messaging service.
“Hurricane Helene was an act of war perpetuated by the United States Military”; a “land grab” responsible for “murdering hundreds, if not thousands, of Americans,” the group said on Oct. 3.
That same day, it launched its disaster deployment operation, stating they were “coming to the aid of those who will not sell, have stolen, or be restricted their property” and to replace the Federal Emergency Management Agency.
… And in the mix of all that, an armed man from a town over, also fueled by viral, anti-government misinformation, joined the fray.
He showed up right when Veterans on Patrol did, Yoxall and two other volunteers said, joining their Sunday prayer circle.
Then he talked about “hunting FEMA,” she said.
Police eventually arrested and charged him with “going armed to the terror of the public.” …”
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(Cont’d)
“…
Armed threats at the Ingles parking lot and elsewhere caused snags in FEMA’s work and that of other federal agencies on the ground, according to federal officials. For at least 48 hours, workers and contractors doing an array of jobs such as clearing trees and inspecting homes stopped working. FEMA adjusted its security practices, for example, not going door-to-door in certain locations. The agency, already stretched thin, has had to divert time and resources away from helping people to combating misinformation, according to a FEMA official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to speak freely on the situation.
“We are used to dealing with threats, but the unprecedented piece we have is it’s part of the political climate we are in,” the official said. The worst part, though, is that “this rhetoric may be discouraging people from applying for assistance.”
… In Lake Lure, Veterans on Patrol showed up to take over logistics, the head of the group, whose full name is Michael Lewis Arthur Meyer, told The Post in one of several interviews. They put up a big, colorful circus tent. They hung an American flag and shirts on hangers that declared “Try this in a small town” and “Let’s go Brandon,” the epithet targeting President Joe Biden. They brought in big trucks full of water and generators and promised they had a lot more coming.
Arthur, who says he is guided by his Christian faith, said he diverted from a mission in Chicago hunting Salvadoran cartels and an “Iranian cell” after seeing reports that authorities threatened to arrest a volunteer pilot trying to rescue people in the Lake Lure area. Journalists verified much of the story, which became fodder for the right wing: evidence that the government was not helping but hindering private citizens’ relief efforts.
… That was a far different tone than his online posts. Beneath photos of donated aid on Telegram, the group said that “People are very angry at FEMA” and that it had intel on “FEMA pulling a dirty trick on good people.”
Arthur made similar comments to locals, Yoxall said.
Yet, she added shortly after they arrived, she could not deny that his group was helping.
“It’s complicated because a lot of people still don’t trust him, and I am in that group, but the man is doing good work,” she said.
She wouldn’t always feel that way. …”
“…
Armed threats at the Ingles parking lot and elsewhere caused snags in FEMA’s work and that of other federal agencies on the ground, according to federal officials. For at least 48 hours, workers and contractors doing an array of jobs such as clearing trees and inspecting homes stopped working. FEMA adjusted its security practices, for example, not going door-to-door in certain locations. The agency, already stretched thin, has had to divert time and resources away from helping people to combating misinformation, according to a FEMA official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to speak freely on the situation.
“We are used to dealing with threats, but the unprecedented piece we have is it’s part of the political climate we are in,” the official said. The worst part, though, is that “this rhetoric may be discouraging people from applying for assistance.”
… In Lake Lure, Veterans on Patrol showed up to take over logistics, the head of the group, whose full name is Michael Lewis Arthur Meyer, told The Post in one of several interviews. They put up a big, colorful circus tent. They hung an American flag and shirts on hangers that declared “Try this in a small town” and “Let’s go Brandon,” the epithet targeting President Joe Biden. They brought in big trucks full of water and generators and promised they had a lot more coming.
Arthur, who says he is guided by his Christian faith, said he diverted from a mission in Chicago hunting Salvadoran cartels and an “Iranian cell” after seeing reports that authorities threatened to arrest a volunteer pilot trying to rescue people in the Lake Lure area. Journalists verified much of the story, which became fodder for the right wing: evidence that the government was not helping but hindering private citizens’ relief efforts.
… That was a far different tone than his online posts. Beneath photos of donated aid on Telegram, the group said that “People are very angry at FEMA” and that it had intel on “FEMA pulling a dirty trick on good people.”
Arthur made similar comments to locals, Yoxall said.
Yet, she added shortly after they arrived, she could not deny that his group was helping.
“It’s complicated because a lot of people still don’t trust him, and I am in that group, but the man is doing good work,” she said.
She wouldn’t always feel that way. …”
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“…
On platforms like X, algorithms wove real stories alongside full-blown conspiracies.
On Sept. 29, an X user suggested that the supposed presence of lithium provided a motive for someone to “modify” the storm, to steal access to the mineral. Prominent voices amplified the theory to millions of people.
Groups such as Veterans on Patrol soon picked it up. “Isn’t it ironic how much lithium is available in the areas targeted by Helene?” the group asked in a Sept. 30 Telegram post.
(There is, in fact, a lithium mine in the North Carolina foothills about a 60-mile drive from Lake Lure. But that area wasn’t as affected, and the government cannot control a hurricane’s path. In an interview, Arthur said he did not want to talk about conspiracy theories, just his mission.)
The theory deepened. Chris Martenson, a right-leaning, conspiracy-minded author and influencer with more than 200,000 followers, published on his verified X account that he had heard that residents in nearby Chimney Rock were told that their town “was being bulldozed, bodies and all and the land was being seized by the federal government,” possibly to mine lithium. (Martenson didn’t respond to requests seeking comment.)
…
In some hard-hit mountain communities of North Carolina, some people didn’t know what to believe. Residents here “don’t trust and have felt abandoned by the government,” said Chris Malcolm, a disaster response volunteer who also lives in Rutherford County.
In four local Facebook groups spanning three rural counties, as well in massive Helene-focused ones with 30,000 members, posts echoing misinformation became sandwiched between requests for helping stray dogs, finding generators for one needy family or another, and updates on power being restored.
… some people have told the agency, “we don’t want you here.” He can sympathize, since trusting them has been hard for him, too. “We don’t know if FEMA will help,” he said. “We are hopeful that they will.
[Vets on Patrol has been useful unloading supplies at the parking lot]
… Derrik Staley, a manager at the Ingles supermarket, said that he was happy to host Veterans on Patrol’s relief efforts, noting “how they’ve gotten bigger and bigger.”
“We appreciate them being here in peoples’ times of need,” he said.
Allen Hardin, a recently retired lieutenant with the Rutherford County Sheriff’s Office, sat in a patrol car. He said that since the threat against FEMA, the sheriff would probably keep an officer posted in the parking lot as long as the Veterans on Patrol operation remained. But there have been no issues for officers to get involved in.
“They’ll talk your head off,” Hardin noted of the group, “but that’s it.” …
… other volunteers also began to doubt Arthur’s glowing social media posts about his group’s assistance, which he used to call for more donations.
… Harris and Yoxall decided to confront Arthur directly. “We appreciate what you’re trying to do here, but you’re not part of this community, you can back off the supplies,” Yoxall said she told him.
And that’s when he snapped, they said.
“He was threatening me,” Harris said Saturday morning.
“Then it turned into people calling me last night, like, be careful. Be careful. Really, he’s talking a lot about you.”
After that, they decided to walk away.
On Monday morning, they went back, again telling Arthur to pack it up, showing the encounter on a video call with a reporter. The Ingles supermarket chain had also gotten involved, the women said. And the people who lent him the giant circus tent and massive trailers no longer wanted to be a part of this.
At one point, Arthur started running, blocking some people from picking up goods.
“Those are for the people,” Yoxall and Harris yelled. “Those are donations for people, for our community. Hey, that’s donations you cant touch that!”
“This is nuts,” Yoxall, stepping off to the side, exclaimed into her phone.
“You can call this the standoff in Lake Lure.”
Soon enough, Veterans on Patrol started packing up, and Arthur disappeared for most of the day.
Lake Lure police officers at the scene said that they were not filing charges and that the group was leaving on its own volition. …”
On platforms like X, algorithms wove real stories alongside full-blown conspiracies.
On Sept. 29, an X user suggested that the supposed presence of lithium provided a motive for someone to “modify” the storm, to steal access to the mineral. Prominent voices amplified the theory to millions of people.
Groups such as Veterans on Patrol soon picked it up. “Isn’t it ironic how much lithium is available in the areas targeted by Helene?” the group asked in a Sept. 30 Telegram post.
(There is, in fact, a lithium mine in the North Carolina foothills about a 60-mile drive from Lake Lure. But that area wasn’t as affected, and the government cannot control a hurricane’s path. In an interview, Arthur said he did not want to talk about conspiracy theories, just his mission.)
The theory deepened. Chris Martenson, a right-leaning, conspiracy-minded author and influencer with more than 200,000 followers, published on his verified X account that he had heard that residents in nearby Chimney Rock were told that their town “was being bulldozed, bodies and all and the land was being seized by the federal government,” possibly to mine lithium. (Martenson didn’t respond to requests seeking comment.)
…
In some hard-hit mountain communities of North Carolina, some people didn’t know what to believe. Residents here “don’t trust and have felt abandoned by the government,” said Chris Malcolm, a disaster response volunteer who also lives in Rutherford County.
In four local Facebook groups spanning three rural counties, as well in massive Helene-focused ones with 30,000 members, posts echoing misinformation became sandwiched between requests for helping stray dogs, finding generators for one needy family or another, and updates on power being restored.
… some people have told the agency, “we don’t want you here.” He can sympathize, since trusting them has been hard for him, too. “We don’t know if FEMA will help,” he said. “We are hopeful that they will.
[Vets on Patrol has been useful unloading supplies at the parking lot]
… Derrik Staley, a manager at the Ingles supermarket, said that he was happy to host Veterans on Patrol’s relief efforts, noting “how they’ve gotten bigger and bigger.”
“We appreciate them being here in peoples’ times of need,” he said.
Allen Hardin, a recently retired lieutenant with the Rutherford County Sheriff’s Office, sat in a patrol car. He said that since the threat against FEMA, the sheriff would probably keep an officer posted in the parking lot as long as the Veterans on Patrol operation remained. But there have been no issues for officers to get involved in.
“They’ll talk your head off,” Hardin noted of the group, “but that’s it.” …
… other volunteers also began to doubt Arthur’s glowing social media posts about his group’s assistance, which he used to call for more donations.
… Harris and Yoxall decided to confront Arthur directly. “We appreciate what you’re trying to do here, but you’re not part of this community, you can back off the supplies,” Yoxall said she told him.
And that’s when he snapped, they said.
“He was threatening me,” Harris said Saturday morning.
“Then it turned into people calling me last night, like, be careful. Be careful. Really, he’s talking a lot about you.”
After that, they decided to walk away.
On Monday morning, they went back, again telling Arthur to pack it up, showing the encounter on a video call with a reporter. The Ingles supermarket chain had also gotten involved, the women said. And the people who lent him the giant circus tent and massive trailers no longer wanted to be a part of this.
At one point, Arthur started running, blocking some people from picking up goods.
“Those are for the people,” Yoxall and Harris yelled. “Those are donations for people, for our community. Hey, that’s donations you cant touch that!”
“This is nuts,” Yoxall, stepping off to the side, exclaimed into her phone.
“You can call this the standoff in Lake Lure.”
Soon enough, Veterans on Patrol started packing up, and Arthur disappeared for most of the day.
Lake Lure police officers at the scene said that they were not filing charges and that the group was leaving on its own volition. …”
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This story is very similar to ways in which similar groups are spreading conspiracy theories about human trafficking, claiming to step in to fill a vacuum to fight their warped version of what is happening (including government officials and private organizations dedicated to fighting human trafficking for decades) and are actually disrupting efforts of those officials and long time experts in the field.
For the most part, these deluded vigilantes say they mean well and probably do, and sometimes they do help … to a point. But they also cast anyone questioning them as part of the enemy apparatus they claim to be fighting and start unintentionally scaring (or quite intentionally smearing and threatening) a lot of the people they claim they want to help.
I’ve been following these kinds of groups as a hobby, I guess you would call it, since college, but particularly after Ruby Ridge and Waco and then the OKC Bombing. The conspiracies have undulated a bit over time but really are not so different now than they were when the Turner Diaries was written or when extremists relocated to Idaho to be among like-minded people. But social media has made it far easier to organize a seemingly infinite array of these sorts of self-appointed militias to “protect” “real Americans” and women and children from the evil U.S. government/state government/U.N./evil corporate cabal/ Jewish cabal / child molesting adrenochrome harvesting woke Democrat Uniparty New World Order Communist Fascist Nazi threat they perceive and project.
Sadly, their fever dream conspiracies are spread much wider and deeper than ever before, but don’t kid yourself — that took root a lot longer ago than you might think.
The current coalition of the Texas strain of ultra-conservatives can be traced in no small part to the reactions of people who used to be ordinary deeply conservative Texas Republicans to the conflagration at Waco and fervent belief that only happened because the U.S. Government had turned on Christianity and the Second Amendment.
But seeing it in real time in my own back yard in direct reaction to a natural disaster that is being recast as deployment of a government weapon is still chilling to me. Perfectly normal seeming, otherwise very pleasant people here are casually making wild anti-government and weather control claims without any obvious understanding how wrong they are or that not everyone around them believes this stuff.
I am interested / sort of terrified to see how this plays out in this NC election because a phrase I’ve had said directly to me by a cashier and heard several other times in public has been a variation of in this election “we’re not going to let them get away with it”.
For the most part, these deluded vigilantes say they mean well and probably do, and sometimes they do help … to a point. But they also cast anyone questioning them as part of the enemy apparatus they claim to be fighting and start unintentionally scaring (or quite intentionally smearing and threatening) a lot of the people they claim they want to help.
I’ve been following these kinds of groups as a hobby, I guess you would call it, since college, but particularly after Ruby Ridge and Waco and then the OKC Bombing. The conspiracies have undulated a bit over time but really are not so different now than they were when the Turner Diaries was written or when extremists relocated to Idaho to be among like-minded people. But social media has made it far easier to organize a seemingly infinite array of these sorts of self-appointed militias to “protect” “real Americans” and women and children from the evil U.S. government/state government/U.N./evil corporate cabal/ Jewish cabal / child molesting adrenochrome harvesting woke Democrat Uniparty New World Order Communist Fascist Nazi threat they perceive and project.
Sadly, their fever dream conspiracies are spread much wider and deeper than ever before, but don’t kid yourself — that took root a lot longer ago than you might think.
The current coalition of the Texas strain of ultra-conservatives can be traced in no small part to the reactions of people who used to be ordinary deeply conservative Texas Republicans to the conflagration at Waco and fervent belief that only happened because the U.S. Government had turned on Christianity and the Second Amendment.
But seeing it in real time in my own back yard in direct reaction to a natural disaster that is being recast as deployment of a government weapon is still chilling to me. Perfectly normal seeming, otherwise very pleasant people here are casually making wild anti-government and weather control claims without any obvious understanding how wrong they are or that not everyone around them believes this stuff.
I am interested / sort of terrified to see how this plays out in this NC election because a phrase I’ve had said directly to me by a cashier and heard several other times in public has been a variation of in this election “we’re not going to let them get away with it”.
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Trump is such a goddamn low life scum to exploit a natural disaster with lie after lie
MOUNTAINH33L
Esteemed Member
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MAGA is cancer.