Historiography

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05C40 said:
Purely idle curiosity on my part, but are you familiar with a pre-printing press concept known as the Cathedral of the Mind? As was explained to me, the Cathedral of the Mind was a pre-printing press menomic device. Because every educated person of the time knew the layout of a Cathedral and the layouts were so similar, the menomic device was to organize one's memory along the lines of the floor plan of a Cathedral. So, when you wanted to remember something, you just visualized the floor plan of a Cathedral, mentally walked over to that area that contained topic you wanted to remember, find what you wanted to remember and, VOILA!, you remembered it. And when the printing press made books cheap, some people condemned books because they believed the mental discipline involved with learning and using the "Cathedral of the Mind" menomic device was more important than the crass convenience of a book.

I first learned of the concept of the "Cathedral of the Mind" when calculators became so small and so cheap in the late 1970's that some were demeaning their existence and claimed that they would short-circuit the mental discipline that was part and parcel of pen and paper and/or mental arithmetic. Sidenote: I still laugh at memories of meeting in early 1980's when all the guys' watches would start beeping at the top of the hour and it would take a couple of seconds for it to pass. Those first digital watches had no way to turn off the top of the hour beep.

When I mentally survey the scientific and medical advances that have occurred in spite of the alleged handicaps of cheap calculators, I feel the calculator inspired fears of the late 1970's can be put into the same dust bin of history as the "Cathedral of the Mind."
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These are really interesting thoughts. I feel the same way about having the internet on my phone. There are many things that I don't feel the need to remember anymore because I can just look them up so easily.

It's true at various stages of history. Homer's Iliad was originally spoken verse, but it became a seminal text because it coincided with the coalescence of the Greek language, and its theme of "us" vs "them" helped to define Greek culture. Again, people today might think that people's memories were better in the past, and maybe in general they were for some people really invested in such things, but then think about how many songs you know by heart that you learned as a teenager. Think about how many songs musicians can play. Not to humble-brag, but there are about ten semester long courses that I can teach without notes. That's about 450 hours of talking (and marshaling discussion) about things in my field. So don't get me started!

Human memory is an amazing thing.
 
Bump this question…

Would love to know who some of your profs were...If I had any favorites they were Lou Perez, John Chasteen, and Colin Palmer (all Latin Americanists). Leon Fink was a good friend and we worked on a book together (I was research assistant, he the author). I greatly appreciated Miles Fletcher as well. James Leutze (US Military History) used to fill up Hamilton 100 for a two-semester survey on "The American Way of War" and I both took that class and TA'd it. His lectures were good. Stephen Baxter taught English History -- that was pretty good too.
 
donbosco said:
Would love to know who some of your profs were...If I had any favorites they were Lou Perez, John Chasteen, and Colin Palmer (all Latin Americanists). Leon Fink was a good friend and we worked on a book together (I was research assistant, he the author). I greatly appreciated Miles Fletcher as well. James Leutze (US Military History) used to fill up Hamilton 100 for a two-semester survey on "The American Way of War" and I both took that class and TA'd it. His lectures were good. Stephen Baxter taught English History -- that was pretty good too.
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I’m a fairly recent grad, so I’m not sure how many of my profs were around then.

I did really enjoy classes with Dr. Harry Watson, who I believe has been around a while.

My thesis adviser and favorite prof during undergrad was Miguel La Serna, a Latin American history prof. I think learning about Latin America should be a requirement for all U.S. students. It’s quite harrowing to learn of the death and destruction that we’ve wrought south of our border.
 
donbosco said:
Appreciate the ‘like.’ I never had any good history teachers growing up but when I got to Carolina there were quite a few. Sometimes I teach freshmen or entry level surveys. It is a challenge to make them interesting and break from the high school mindset that students bring with them. I've got a US History to 1865 coming up this semester. I'm using THE AMERICAN YAWP: A Massively Collaborative Open U.S. History Textbook for the course because 1) It is FREE (and textbook cost a pretty penny these days) and 2) it has a lot of capabilities for maps and images to be closely examined and I think that should help take things into new places. Here is the link to the source: The American Yawp

We're also reading The Unknown American Revolution (https://www.amazon.com/American-Rev...401702499-014303720X-&hvexpln=73&gad_source=1), which I think brings to the readers exactly what the title suggests -- the stories that they've not learned and should have.

In Amazon's totally innocuous synopsis they say: "In this audacious recasting of the American Revolution, distinguished historian Gary Nash offers a profound new way of thinking about the struggle to create this country, introducing readers to a coalition of patriots from all classes and races of American society. From millennialist preachers to enslaved Africans, disgruntled women to aggrieved Indians, the people so vividly portrayed in this book did not all agree or succeed, but during the exhilarating and messy years of this country's birth, they laid down ideas that have become part of our inheritance and ideals toward which we still strive today."

I'm kind of psyched about doing this...I haven't taught a full-on freshman history class in ten years (though I did teach freshman humanities -- which was kind of a Readings in Ancient History course) last Fall. These Pandemic young adults are different than previous generations in regard to how they view deadlines, completing assignments, and attendance. Throw ChatGPT into the mix and this is a whole new ball game and will be for quite some time.
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I bookmarked the link to American Yawp, thanks.

I had some really good professors along the way, I really don't recall having any exceptional teachers in school.
I always respected the really good professors and was always envious of how smart they were. I had a calculus professor (calc 3 I believe) that would show up with a piece of chalk and go to work. He would go off on tangents of how the calculus was applied. I recall one day he started talking about how to use calculus to determine the resonant frequency of a tank circuit. I remember it because it was knowledge that I actually had, while the rest of the class appeared lost, I knew exactly what he was talking about. :) He always seemed so happy and smiled, he truly loved teaching. I found out later that he was also a triple PhD candidate.

Funny you mention deadlines. At Tech if it was due at midnight, you started submitting at 10 PM, because at one second after midnight it was no longer accepted. I took a summer class at another school, closer to home, and I recall having an assignment due the next day's class. I stayed up all night working to finish it. Went into class turned it in and the girl beside me told the professor she didn't have time to finish, the professor told her to turn it in before the next class. I almost lost it. :)

My daughter is a pandemic kid, and she struggled with the attendance and deadlines. It was a constant battle.
 
I immensly enjoyed working at UNC because my job entailed talking to Profs all over campus about their organization and their staff's work It was enjoyable because so many of them were so dern smart-listening was fun and they kept me on my toes , because if I was bad at what I did I was a bureaucratic impediment . Nobody wants that LOL...
 
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Meanwhile in the Pacific…
I never realized how lacking and eurocentric my education was until I came across Wade Davis’s book The Wayfinders, and then read Hawaiki Rising. Polynesian navigators were crossing the ocean thousands of years before the European greats tried sailing out of sight of land.

Granted, our culture came across the pond but eastern civilization is just as worthy of study as western.
 
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ColdBlueSteel said:
Meanwhile in the Pacific…
I never realized how lacking and eurocentric my education was until I came across Wade Davis’s book The Wayfinders, and then read Hwaiki Rising. Polynesian navigators were crossing the ocean thousands of years before the European greats tried sailing out of sight of land.

Granted, our culture came across the pond but eastern civilization is just as worthy of study as western.
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I agree with you completely. It's one thing finding the Western Hemisphere. But finding a single island in the Pacific Ocean? I still have no idea how you find an island in the Pacific Ocean if you don't where it is or even if it exists. Just noodling around until you hit land is not how the Polynesians did it. This was not just going to the next island you could see from the top of the volcano. This was travelling to a speck of land WAY over the horizon.
 
mpaer said:
I immensly enjoyed working at UNC because my job entailed talking to Profs all over campus about their organization and their staff's work It was enjoyable because so many of them were so dern smart-listening was fun and they kept me on my toes , because if I was bad at what I did I was a bueracratic impediment . Nobody wants that LOL...
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Especially a bureaucratic impediment who can’t spell bureaucratic.
 
Great thread here. The recent tangent to high school and college profs brings me back.

I was at Chapel Hill High from 85-87. They had a great collection of history teachers that went on to become professors or greatness.

Tony Yount - I believe he’s active at UNC now
Houston Robertson - now deceased but a well known professor at university of the south
Fred Kiger - civil war historian and lecturer. Unc hoops statistician.

Needless to say they lit a fire and I went on to be a history major at unc.

I went on to a career in tech, but feel like I use my history skills all the time.
 
ronjon said:
Great thread here. The recent tangent to high school and college profs brings me back.

I was at Chapel Hill High from 85-87. They had a great collection of history teachers that went on to become professors or greatness.

Tony Yount - I believe he’s active at UNC now
Houston Robertson - now deceased but a well known professor at university of the south
Fred Kiger - civil war historian and lecturer. Unc hoops statistician.

Needless to say they lit a fire and I went on to be a history major at unc.

I went on to a career in tech, but feel like I use my history skills all the time.
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Tony Yount passed away from cancer a few years ago. Wonderful teacher. I had him for American history at Phillips Jr. High in the late ‘70’s. He also coached 9th grade basketball for several seasons.
 
I've known Freddie Kiger since undergrad when he ran the machine that was Teague Intramurals. When I tended bar at The Hardback Cafe he would come through and have a pint from time to time and we'd talk history (and historiography). He has the 1962 Topps Civil War Trading Card Set. See here: 1962 Topps Civil War News Complete Set 2.5 - GD+ PSET | eBay

I had them but they were destroyed in a house fire -- I miss those cards. Freddie has surely lived the life.
 
donbosco said:
I've known Freddie Kiger since undergrad when he ran the machine that was Teague Intramurals. When I tended bar at The Hardback Cafe he would come through and have a pint from time to time and we'd talk history (and historiography). He has the 1962 Topps Civil War Trading Card Set. See here: 1962 Topps Civil War News Complete Set 2.5 - GD+ PSET | eBay

I had them but they were destroyed in a house fire -- I miss those cards. Freddie has surely lived the life.
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I’ve known Freddie since we lifeguarded together at the Chapel Hill Tennis Club decades ago. Never had him as a teacher; but, I enjoy his lectures through the Alumni Association.

Chapel Hill’s (and UNC’s) Draggan Mihailovich is how Freddie got into doing research at Olympic broadcasts - Draggan had done research at the 1984 Sarajevo Winter Games (he’s fluent in Serbo-Croatian); Draggan needed another researcher for the 1988 Seoul Games and he called Freddie).
 
donbosco said:
@05C40 - I have long loved those Boorstin books. I have my own mythological imagining of him literally sitting in a high tower periodically calling down to the reference librarians below with resource requests as he wrote Magnum Opus after Magnum Opus.

My ‘take’ is that, like most conquerors, Columbus was resourceful as all get-out. As a navigator he was a master as you point out - the time he spent in Spanish and Portuguese ports and at sea as well as alongside his brother Bartolomé the cartographer put him on the cutting edge of maritime knowledge.

But he was apparently both super greedy and Uber convinced that anything done in The Name of God as he defined Him was fine, even the type of pursuit that would place Heaven in his future and result in the blessing of wealth on earth.

We all owe a lot to good record-keepers and as a Latin Americanist I am particularly fortunate that the Spanish and their agents were obsessive “ass coverers” document-wise. Columbus, though Genoese fit right in.

The rest of the Conquistadors were pretty remarkable too - performing literal feats of almost unbelievable strength and prowess. I can celebrate a certain fortitude in these Christian Warriors with Dreams of Cashing In but their profound lack of ethics takes a lot of the shimmer off their deeds. And they knew what they were doing - the life and writings of Bartolome de Las Casas among others makes that clear. They were most often cruel even by the standards of the day but colonizing requires that and ultimately there was a Mercantilist ‘All Wealth is Limited’ philosophy driving their expeditions.

In general I think I try to stay away from celebration though and just try and lay it out there - I seek objectivity but am very aware that is but a pursuit essentially unobtainable.
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Out of curiosity, have you ever seen the film Aguirre, Wrath of God? It's a German version of a conquistador story. Aguirre is repackaged as a Hitler-like megalomaniac, and it's very much a Herzog film and very much not a historical film, but I'd still be interested in what you think of it if you've seen it.
 
"What Columbus did that Boorstin celebrated was that Columbus both wrote down how to find the trade winds that would carry ships to and from America, but he also published those writing in sufficient detail and sufficiently widely distributed those writings that 500 years later, they were still readily available and could be read and understood by persons with only a modest understanding of navigation. This last part was what Boorstin believed was monumental and what made Columbus praiseworthy. However, Boorstin also acknowledged that Columbus also loosed a holocaust on the then existing inhabitants of the Americas from which they have never recovered."

I had to chuckle a little about this. Imagining someone trying to weigh Columbus as a historical figure: "Pros: made advancements in use of trade winds; cons, unleashed genocide that may have killed 90+% of two continents' native populations." But of course the genocide part wasn't really Columbus's fault; the same thing would have happened whenever Europeans came into contact with the indigenous populations of the Americas. Moreso what he deserves condemnation for is his clear desire to subjugate and exploit the native populations he came into contact with for his own wealth and glory (not that he was even close to alone in that respect).
 
mpaer said:

Harry L. Watson | Department of History

history.unc.edu history.unc.edu
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Oh my...in graduate school I kind of had it out with Dr. Watson as did the rest of the Latin Americanists. He taught a Research Methods course for first years, first semester. It was completely geared for grad students that were focusing on U.S. History but for some reason we were placed with him (we'd been much better off with the Europeanists since our primary research was overwhelmingly in either Spanish or Portuguese). In those days before digitized resources finding primary documents in foreign languages was a huge challenge plus most of us needed to wait until at least the summer after our first two semesters to go TO Latin America to work in archives. Our advisors (at the time Gil Joseph, Joseph Tulchin, and Colin Palmer) also had it out with Watson over his treatment of us. We all passed his class but he took up an incredible amount of our time and energy that we should have been devoting to our field of study.

He and I eventually became friendly, especially when my second field was set as The American South, but the cadre of Latin Americanists (usually two to three per year) were never too fond of him. He was cursed often in fact.
 
superrific said:
Out of curiosity, have you ever seen the film Aguirre, Wrath of God? It's a German version of a conquistador story. Aguirre is repackaged as a Hitler-like megalomaniac, and it's very much a Herzog film and very much not a historical film, but I'd still be interested in what you think of it if you've seen it.
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It has been many years since I have seen it. I've actually taught Latin American History Through Film but not in over ten years. It wasn't a film that I used. UNC, in conjunction with Duke, is part of The Consortium in Latin American and Caribbean Studies. I worked for the UNC side of that program for a couple of years as I was ABD. Together they have one of the best Latin American film collections on the East Coast. Films, however, physical films, are really a thing of the past so I'm wondering how they function these days. Here is a link to the film collection: Latin American Film Library Interesting...they do not have Aguirre: The Wrath of God in the collection. I'm pretty sure that I saw it when I was at Carolina though. I don't remember much about it frankly. I'm always looking for colonial settings in film but there really aren't very many.

Consortium in Latin American and Caribbean Studies | Institute for the Study of the Americas
 
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