Hot Stove: UNC Basketball

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kidryancorn said:
Super has a nice run of ice cold takes, and continues to double down.
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There's no doubling down. It's just my opinion. I'm pretty sure that it's reasonable and well-founded. That doesn't mean it's correct. You're free to disagree. I'm not asserting anything like, "if you don't agree with me, you're wrong." I will do that when I am confident in my knowledge about something, which is not the case here. It doesn't bother me to be wrong. Even Steph Curry has missed 500 FTs in his career, and if my intellectual accuracy is as good as his FT accuracy I'd be doing pretty damn well I think.
 
superrific said:
I most certainly did not say that I think HD handled it properly. I said that I trust HD and the staff to handle it properly. Those aren't the same things. For instance, I also trusted (implicitly) that our head coach wouldn't hurl basketballs in anger at our best player; alas, Doh did not live up to that trust.

HD might have messed this up completely. I don't know. I just trust that he will do the right thing on this issue. that might be misplaced, but it's my best judgment as of now.

Edit: I did inadvertently write something that can be readily interpreted as saying HD handled it properly. I didn't intend that meaning.
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Pretty sure this wasn’t HD’s decision alone.

As a true Christian HD would probably be on board with forgiveness and redemption though.
 
the whole "maybe ZH and other kids his age don't know that its wrong to secretly record sex acts without permission from the other party...." proposition is fucking LAUGHABLE and one of the worst takes i've ever heard out of super.

99.9% of the time people don't secretly do things that they think are okay. like, what? this is logic 101.
 
4thgenheel said:
the whole "maybe ZH and other kids his age don't know that its wrong to secretly record sex acts without permission from the other party...." proposition is fucking LAUGHABLE and one of the worst takes i've ever heard out of super.

99.9% of the time people don't secretly do things that they think are okay. like, what? this is logic 101.
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do we know that he did it "secretly"? He didn't tell her, which isn't the same thing relative to your second paragraph. My stance ultimately is that we don't know what happened and HD does. That doesn't depend on whether ZH knew it was wrong or not. I don't see any reason to think that HD and the athletic department would sacrifice morals for a backup forward. Doesn't HD disallow cursing at practice? That's the guy who is going to corrupt himself for Zayden High? Talk about logic 101.

I've learned over the years that young people don't necessarily know everything we think they know. We think they know what is obvious to us, because it's like duh, except that it's not necessarily obvious to people who didn't grow up with the same set of cultural assumptions and experiences.

Note also that I am not saying that he doesn't know; I'm saying maybe the severity of the offense was not clear to him. Maybe. I literally don't know.

That said, if you want to disagree with me, OK. I don't know if it's fucking LAUGHABLE but maybe. I always strive to have the best opinions. If I batted 1.000 in that task life would be boring.
 
superrific said:
do we know that he did it "secretly"? He didn't tell her, which isn't the same thing relative to your second paragraph. My stance ultimately is that we don't know what happened and HD does. That doesn't depend on whether ZH knew it was wrong or not. I don't see any reason to think that HD and the athletic department would sacrifice morals for a backup forward. Doesn't HD disallow cursing at practice? That's the guy who is going to corrupt himself for Zayden High? Talk about logic 101.

I've learned over the years that young people don't necessarily know everything we think they know. We think they know what is obvious to us, because it's like duh, except that it's not necessarily obvious to people who didn't grow up with the same set of cultural assumptions and experiences.

Note also that I am not saying that he doesn't know; I'm saying maybe the severity of the offense was not clear to him. Maybe. I literally don't know.

That said, if you want to disagree with me, OK. I don't know if it's fucking LAUGHABLE but maybe. I always strive to have the best opinions. If I batted 1.000 in that task life would be boring.
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you should really read the n&o article, my dude. it is crystal clear that ZH knew that he was doing something that wasn't okay.

"At some point during the encounter between the student and High, which continued into the early hours of Jan. 26, “I noticed his phone, and I stopped us from what we were doing,” the student said.

High initially denied filming the student, she said. But after asking High to open Snapchat on his phone, she saw the video he had filmed and deleted it from the app herself, she said. “It became very clear that he had filmed me without my knowledge, without my consent, or just without any warning,” the student said.

The student then asked High to show her additional locations on his phone where the video might have been saved, like the camera roll. She confirmed — to the best of her knowledge — that no additional copies existed.

The student left High’s room in tears, she said.

The student also provided The N&O with a photo of Snapchat messages High sent her on Jan. 26. She told The N&O she messaged High after leaving his room to again confirm he had deleted the video, and the messages appear to show High affirming that he had done so. (The photo does not include the student’s messages to High.) “i apologize,” read one message from High to the student. “i’m sorry. i deleted it i promise,” read another.

Read more at: https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/article305387756.html#storylink=cpy
 
4thgenheel said:
you should really read the n&o article, my dude. it is crystal clear that ZH knew that he was doing something that wasn't okay.

"At some point during the encounter between the student and High, which continued into the early hours of Jan. 26, “I noticed his phone, and I stopped us from what we were doing,” the student said.

High initially denied filming the student, she said. But after asking High to open Snapchat on his phone, she saw the video he had filmed and deleted it from the app herself, she said. “It became very clear that he had filmed me without my knowledge, without my consent, or just without any warning,” the student said.

The student then asked High to show her additional locations on his phone where the video might have been saved, like the camera roll. She confirmed — to the best of her knowledge — that no additional copies existed.

The student left High’s room in tears, she said.

The student also provided The N&O with a photo of Snapchat messages High sent her on Jan. 26. She told The N&O she messaged High after leaving his room to again confirm he had deleted the video, and the messages appear to show High affirming that he had done so. (The photo does not include the student’s messages to High.) “i apologize,” read one message from High to the student. “i’m sorry. i deleted it i promise,” read another.

Read more at: https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/article305387756.html#storylink=cpy
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I thought we weren't supposed to click on N&O links. I'm not local, so I'm not current on the news front. If it's OK to read the N&O again, that would be good to know. Not that I have a subscription, but anyway. . .

I don't think I said ZH didn't know it was wrong. I said that he might not have known it was wrong -- i.e. really wrong. That passage above, to me at least, suggests that he thought he was playing a prank or something of that seriousness. I mean, he did open the Snapchat for her, and he let her delete it, and he apologized. That doesn't seem like malice to me.

And it's not like we're talking about a guy who went unpunished. He lost a year of basketball. That's a significant penalty. I had actually thought it was worse, before reading that article, because I had been under the impression that the photo left his room. It was obviously a dumb thing to do, but I see no reason to ruin the guy's life over it. This isn't a Jalek Felton situation.

Judging from the casualness of the encounter, it's entirely possible that ZH had done this before. If this was a habit and not a one-time thing, that changes the calculus for me a lot. I think it would for most people.
 
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superrific said:
I thought we weren't supposed to click on N&O links. I'm not local, so I'm not current on the news front. If it's OK to read the N&O again, that would be good to know. Not that I have a subscription, but anyway. . .

I don't think I said ZH didn't know it was wrong. I said that he might not have known it was wrong -- i.e. really wrong. That passage above, to me at least, suggests that he thought he was playing a prank or something of that seriousness. I mean, he did open the Snapchat for her, and he let her delete it, and he apologized. That doesn't seem like malice to me.

And it's not like we're talking about a guy who went unpunished. He lost a year of basketball. That's a significant penalty. I had actually thought it was worse, before reading that article, because I had been under the impression that the photo left his room. It was obviously a dumb thing to do, but I see no reason to ruin the guy's life over it. This isn't a Jalek Felton situation.
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It’s high time we talk about something else.
 
superrific said:
I thought we weren't supposed to click on N&O links. I'm not local, so I'm not current on the news front. If it's OK to read the N&O again, that would be good to know. Not that I have a subscription, but anyway. . .

I don't think I said ZH didn't know it was wrong. I said that he might not have known it was wrong -- i.e. really wrong. That passage above, to me at least, suggests that he thought he was playing a prank or something of that seriousness. I mean, he did open the Snapchat for her, and he let her delete it, and he apologized. That doesn't seem like malice to me.

And it's not like we're talking about a guy who went unpunished. He lost a year of basketball. That's a significant penalty. I had actually thought it was worse, before reading that article, because I had been under the impression that the photo left his room. It was obviously a dumb thing to do, but I see no reason to ruin the guy's life over it. This isn't a Jalek Felton situation.

Judging from the casualness of the encounter, it's entirely possible that ZH had done this before. If this was a habit and not a one-time thing, that changes the calculus for me a lot. I think it would for most people.
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yeah, by no means do i think that he did the worst thing ever or that his life should be ruined and he's definitely been punished pretty seriously already.

but he definitely understood that what he was doing was not okay.

and characterizing taking unauthorized video of a woman during a sex act as a "prank" is way too lenient and attempts to excuse the offender.

it is malicious and predatory and takes serious advantage of someone when they are in the midst of a very private, vulnerable moment.

when the young woman figured out what was happening and rightfully freaked out, ZH backed down and apologized and deleted it which is good but it was a really, really uncool thing to do in the first place.
 
I've been thinking about this lately...I think one issue our fanbase is having is how long it's been since we've had a dominant season, the kind where you win nearly every game and it's just a lot of fun. I'd define this kind of season as having 5 or less losses on the year.

The last one of those we've had was 2008-2009, when we went 34-4. It's been 16 seasons and counting since then.

Here are the ones before that, going back through the undefeated 1957 team (year achieved, record, and # of years from last occurrence):

2007-2008, 36-3, 1 year
2004-2005, 33-4, 3 years
1997-1998, 34-4, 7 years
1992-1993, 34-4, 5 years
1986-1987, 32-4, 6 years
1983-1984, 28-3, 3 years
1981-1982, 32-2, 2 years
1976-1977, 28-5, 5 years
1975-1976, 25-4, 1 year
1971-1972, 26-5, 4 years
1968-1969, 27-5, 3 years
1967-1968, 28-4, 1 year
1960-1961, 19-4, 7 years
1958-1959, 20-5, 2 years
1956-1957, 32-0, 2 years

So going back almost 70 years now, our current 16 season streak with no fewer than 6 losses is nearly double the longest streak before that of 7 years (twice). Of course, we play a lot more games now than in the 1950s and 1960s, but I think there's something to be taken from this. For a lot of fans, losses hurt a lot more than your average win makes you excited. So if we've not had a season in the last decade and a half where we have 5 or fewer losses, I think part of what the Carolina fanbase is going through is not having a season where we've been absolutely dominant and only experienced the pain of a few losses.
 
SnoopRob said:
I've been thinking about this lately...I think one issue our fanbase is having is how long it's been since we've had a dominant season, the kind where you win nearly every game and it's just a lot of fun. I'd define this kind of season as having 5 or less losses on the year.

The last one of those we've had was 2008-2009, when we went 34-4. It's been 16 seasons and counting since then.

Here are the ones before that, going back through the undefeated 1957 team (year achieved, record, and # of years from last occurrence):

2007-2008, 36-3, 1 year
2004-2005, 33-4, 3 years
1997-1998, 34-4, 7 years
1992-1993, 34-4, 5 years
1986-1987, 32-4, 6 years
1983-1984, 28-3, 3 years
1981-1982, 32-2, 2 years
1976-1977, 28-5, 5 years
1975-1976, 25-4, 1 year
1971-1972, 26-5, 4 years
1968-1969, 27-5, 3 years
1967-1968, 28-4, 1 year
1960-1961, 19-4, 7 years
1958-1959, 20-5, 2 years
1956-1957, 32-0, 2 years

So going back almost 70 years now, our current 16 season streak with no fewer than 6 losses is nearly double the longest streak before that of 7 years (twice). Of course, we play a lot more games now than in the 1950s and 1960s, but I think there's something to be taken from this. For a lot of fans, losses hurt a lot more than your average win makes you excited. So if we've not had a season in the last decade and a half where we have 5 or fewer losses, I think part of what the Carolina fanbase is going through is not having a season where we've been absolutely dominant and only experienced the pain of a few losses.
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I think you need to lower your threshold of a "dominant" season if seasons like 2016 and 2017 - when we won 33 games, won the regular season title, earned a 1 seed, and reached the title game both years - don't qualify. Not to mention 2012, when we went 32-6 and had what I would generally consider a vintage UNC team. But I otherwise agree with your premise that it's specifically our relative "down" period since 2017 - when we have had some fun moments but not really any angst-free seasons - that is making everyone so grumpy.
 
superrific said:
do we know that he did it "secretly"? He didn't tell her, which isn't the same thing relative to your second paragraph. My stance ultimately is that we don't know what happened and HD does. That doesn't depend on whether ZH knew it was wrong or not. I don't see any reason to think that HD and the athletic department would sacrifice morals for a backup forward. Doesn't HD disallow cursing at practice? That's the guy who is going to corrupt himself for Zayden High? Talk about logic 101.

I've learned over the years that young people don't necessarily know everything we think they know. We think they know what is obvious to us, because it's like duh, except that it's not necessarily obvious to people who didn't grow up with the same set of cultural assumptions and experiences.

Note also that I am not saying that he doesn't know; I'm saying maybe the severity of the offense was not clear to him. Maybe. I literally don't know.

That said, if you want to disagree with me, OK. I don't know if it's fucking LAUGHABLE but maybe. I always strive to have the best opinions. If I batted 1.000 in that task life would be boring.
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At the risk of causing Super to commit Harakiri, I find myself in agreement with him on this issue.
 
Rock said:
Sounds like we’ll land Ivan Kharchenkov. Know absolutely nothing about him…
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Solidly built Russian in Germany. Eighteen, 6-6 with an inside game and a take-it-to-the-hoop mentality. Has not shown much outside shooting abiility. Playing for Bayern Munich but only limited minutes. Has played well within his age group and led Germany to European Championship. That's all just things that I have heard or read.

Here's more: UNC Basketball Staff Eyeing Russian Wing for 2025-26 Tar Heel Roster
 
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