How Non MAGA Conservatives View Trump

wmheel1287 said:
Is this the thread for Trump voters to try to convince themselves that they dont have accountability for that steaming pile of shit soiling the nation beyond repair?
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It’s whatever you want it to be because nothing I can say, or any other person who doesn’t think as you could say would ever get you to see it any differently.
 
Callatoroy said:
It’s whatever you want it to be because nothing I can say, or any other person who doesn’t think as you could say would ever get you to see it any differently.
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About Donald Trump? That is absolutely true. Donald Trump is a vivid line for me as a former Republican voter. His lack of emotional IQ, his lack of moral decency, his lack of basic human empathy....all completely disqualfying for me. I have always been honest about that.
 
CFordUNC said:
Take it from me, a 2016 Trump voter and an actual conservative (if conservatism actually means being in favor of protecting individual rights and personal liberties, no government intervention in the private lives of its citizens, belief in projecting strength abroad through a powerful, well-trained military but most importantly through well-cultivated alliances, secure national borders but not a closed off system of immigration, low taxes, and a social safety net that provides a helping hand up): this article is absolutely awful.

Nobody who is an actual conservative thinks that shredding the Constitution, destroying our alliances, demolishing our hegemony and soft power abroad, making our economy unaffordable and untenable for all but the top 1-2%, siccing a secret police gestapo on American citizens, and blatantly thumbing one’s nose at the law and legal system….was worth it just so that a handful of transgender volleyball players can’t play sports, or a few pink-haired baristas can’t wear pronouns on their badges, or a few more Black people don’t get “good” jobs, or a few more hard-working but technically undocumented immigrants get deported to concentration camps.

Anyone who supported Trump in 2024 hates everything that made America great in the 20th and 21st century, and what made us the strongest, most prosperous country in the history of the world: our diversity, our geopolitical alliances, our ability to project goodwill and soft power to every corner of the globe, our individual freedom to choose to be who we want to be, and the notion that anyone who wanted to come to America and work hard, innovate, and build- literally participate in the proverbial American dream- could do so. Anyone who voted for Donald Trump in 2024 did so because they hate their neighbor’s ability to make their own personal lifestyle choices with which they disagree. It really is as simple as that.

In doing so, everyone who voted for Trump in 2024 because “the transgenders! the Mexicans! but Biden! her weird laugh! the pronouns!” and because they are selfish, insecure, angry, jealous, and bitter of a world that has left their simpleness and close-mindedness in the dust of history, has made it such that the health, wealth, peace, and prosperity of Pax Americana is permanently squandered- and we haven’t even truly begun to feel the true repercussions yet.
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“Anyone who supported Trump in 2024 hates everything that made America great in the 20th and 21st century, and what made us the strongest, most prosperous country in the history of the world: our diversity, our geopolitical alliances, our ability to project goodwill and soft power to every corner of the globe, our individual freedom to choose to be who we want to be, and the notion that anyone who wanted to come to America and work hard, innovate, and build- literally participate in the proverbial American dream- could do so. Anyone who voted for Donald Trump in 2024 did so because they hate their neighbor’s ability to make their own personal lifestyle choices which which they disagree. It really is as simple as that.

That is factually wrong in so many ways.
 
Callatoroy said:
The problem with your post is it’s rooted in hyperbolic rhetoric which prohibits constructive discussion of what’s really happening because it hasn’t done any of those things. It has changed some of those things and I understand that you dislike them but, for example, it hasn’t “completely dismantled every international alliance….”, because we are still the main engine that drives NATO and that isnt going to change because of trump.
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I take it that you are not concerned that Trump will withdraw us from NATO despite his threats. I hope you do agree that Trump is weakening our relationships with our European allies, Canada, and Australia. And I hope you have seen that our allies are now considering not sharing their 5 Eyes intelligence due to our recklessness handling such data which compromises our national security.
 
wmheel1287 said:
Im sorry, but you really don't get to judge hyperbole after posting that article which goes full-on hyperbolic about everything relating to Democrats.
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I just did as it relates to Wayne’s post. It is incorrect. If you disagree that’s fine, but it doesn’t make his comments accurate.
 
Callatoroy said:
“Anyone who supported Trump in 2024 hates everything that made America great in the 20th and 21st century, and what made us the strongest, most prosperous country in the history of the world: our diversity, our geopolitical alliances, our ability to project goodwill and soft power to every corner of the globe, our individual freedom to choose to be who we want to be, and the notion that anyone who wanted to come to America and work hard, innovate, and build- literally participate in the proverbial American dream- could do so. Anyone who voted for Donald Trump in 2024 did so because they hate their neighbor’s ability to make their own personal lifestyle choices which which they disagree. It really is as simple as that.

That is factually wrong in so many ways.
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Exactly how is that wrong?
 
Callatoroy said:
“Anyone who supported Trump in 2024 hates everything that made America great in the 20th and 21st century, and what made us the strongest, most prosperous country in the history of the world: our diversity, our geopolitical alliances, our ability to project goodwill and soft power to every corner of the globe, our individual freedom to choose to be who we want to be, and the notion that anyone who wanted to come to America and work hard, innovate, and build- literally participate in the proverbial American dream- could do so. Anyone who voted for Donald Trump in 2024 did so because they hate their neighbor’s ability to make their own personal lifestyle choices which which they disagree. It really is as simple as that.

That is factually wrong in so many ways.
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I think if you truly thought so, you would rebut it. You and I have enough of a posting history with one another that you know I am totally open to reasonable, rational debate and disagreement.
 
wmheel1287 said:
About Donald Trump? That is absolutely true. Donald Trump is a vivid line for me as a former Republican voter. His lack of emotional IQ, his lack of moral decency, his lack of basic human empathy....all completely disqualfying for me. I have always been honest about that.
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It’s not about trump. That’s the point. You are blinded so much by trump that you can’t see anything but the hatred. You can’t separate the policy from the person. You can’t discuss the policy without the person. We have policy differences. We don’t have person differences. I can separate the two.
 
heelinhell said:
I take it that you are not concerned that Trump will withdraw us from NATO despite his threats. I hope you do agree that Trump is weakening our relationships with our European allies, Canada, and Australia. And I hope you have seen that our allies are now considering not sharing their 5 Eyes intelligence due to our recklessness handling such data which compromises our national security.
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We are currently in NATO “in name only.” It’s becoming more and more probable that the United States would actually honor an invocation of Article 5. Our country’s chief executive views literally everything through transactional lenses. Our closest allies, as you noted, are done sharing intelligence with us. Our reclusiveness toward our allies, our outright own embrace of Russia is, and most recently our actual sabre rattling about LITERALLY INVADING OUR NATO ALLIES is going to cause a chain reaction of countries like Germany, Poland, Japan, South Korea, Canada, and many others to pursue nuclear weapons. The international world order is rapidly becoming less safe and less stable than at any point in the last 100 years- all because of the United States.
 
Callatoroy said:
It’s not about trump. That’s the point. You are blinded so much by trump that you can’t see anything but the hatred. You can’t separate the policy from the person. You can’t discuss the policy without the person. We have policy differences. We don’t have person differences. I can separate the two.
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I have been posting about Trump's policies separate from his person. I'm guessing you have me on ignore or do not want to engage with me when it comes to discussing policy ?
 
Kingpin said:
Exactly how is that wrong?
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For one, not just everybody who wanted to come to America could come. Pretty much that entire paragraph is incorrect. Im not going to try to explain to you why it’s incorrect to say that everyone who voted for trump hates what made America great. If you can’t acknowledge the absurdity of that comment then really nothing more I can say other than have a great weekend and Go Heels.
 
CFordUNC said:
We are currently in NATO “in name only.” It’s becoming more and more probable that the United States would actually honor an invocation of Article 5. Our country’s chief executive views literally everything through transactional lenses. Our closest allies, as you noted, are done sharing intelligence with us. Our reclusiveness toward our allies, our outright own embrace of Russia is, and most recently our actual sabre rattling about LITERALLY INVADING OUR NATO ALLIES is going to cause a chain reaction of countries like Germany, Poland, Japan, South Korea, Canada, and many others to pursue nuclear weapons. The international world order is rapidly becoming less safe and less stable than at any point in the last 100 years- all because of the United States.
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My point is, that’s your interpretation. Not fact. My interpretation is different. My interpretation isnt tainted by trump hatred and this board. We share a dislike of the man. His actions have caused some negatives but we disagree on the reality of those negatives and the cost to gain the positives.
 
Callatoroy said:
For one, not just everybody who wanted to come to America could come. Pretty much that entire paragraph is incorrect. Im not going to try to explain to you why it’s incorrect to say that everyone who voted for trump hates what made America great. If you can’t acknowledge the absurdity of that comment then really nothing more I can say other than have a great weekend and Go Heels.
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You didn’t understand the point then. The point was that America being a nation of immigrants, a shining beacon on the hill to the rest of the world, is what made us great. Our ability to attract the best and brightest and most talented and hardest working from all over the globe to come participate in the greatest economy the world has ever seen. Donald Trump and his voters don’t want America to be a nation of immigrants. That point is not even remotely debatable. They explicitly tell you so.
 
heelinhell said:
I have been posting about Trump's policies separate from his person. I'm guessing you have me on ignore or do not want to engage with me when it comes to discussing policy ?
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I don’t have anyone on ignore. Ignore is for pussies. I do engage with you when I’m on this board. I do respect you comments.
 
Callatoroy said:
My point is, that’s your interpretation. Not fact. My interpretation is different. My interpretation isnt tainted by trump hatred and this board. We share a dislike of the man. His actions have caused some negatives but we disagree on the reality of those negatives and the cost to gain the positives.
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That’s fine, you are certainly entitled to your interpretation. But your interpretation puts you in a very, very, very infinitesimally small minority around the globe. In what way do you think antagonizing and alienating our closest allies to the point which they will no longer share intelligence with us, makes America great or strong?
 
I’ll say this as well. My hatred for Donald Trump is not specific or exclusive to Donald Trump. It extends every bit as much, and if not more so, to people like JD Vance and Stephen Miller and Mitch McConnell and essentially every single other Republican who has had the power and the ability to stop the madness at any point over the last half decade and has chosen not to do so. I do not have Trump derangement syndrome, I have Republican Party derangement syndrome.
 
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