How Non MAGA Conservatives View Trump

The thing that I appreciate most about Donald Trump is that he has completely exposed the hypocrisy that is American conservatism. MAGA Trumpism is a hell of a lot closer to the nanny police state type socialism that Republicans have been screaming about for decades.

Every single person who votes for Donald Trump and who claims that they are conservative is lying. There’s nothing conservative about dismantling the United States Constitution. There’s nothing conservative about cheering a secret police that reports only to the president being able to kill American citizens with impunity. There’s nothing conservative about buddying up to a Russian autocratic dictator. There’s nothing conservative about demolishing decades old alliances. There’s nothing conservative about threatening to assault or invade our democratic allies. There’s nothing conservative about federal intervention in states’ affairs. There’s nothing conservative about thumbing your nose at law and order. There’s nothing conservative about being so fiscally irresponsible as slashing taxes on the wealthiest while exploding reckless, limitless spending. Yet every single conservative on this thread, and every single conservative at large who voted for Trump, decided that they either never had actual conservative principles in the first place, or that those conservative principles are so malleable as to be so easily discarded the moment they become inconvenient when you have to pledge fealty to a cult.
 
ZenMode said:
My posting style tends to be very micro...very specific. So, in the process of responding very specially, it leaves room for a lot of assumptions. If I defend a Trump idea or a specific Trump action, assumptions are often made that I'm a Trump supporter.

I think that's pretty standard in chat forums, as people try to pigeon-hole others.
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I think people fit you more into an asshole.
 
Callatoroy said:
I think most non trump voters don’t understand that people dislike trump as a person but like his policies. If they could ever understand that there would be far less political bickering.
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There might be a handful of those people and you might be one of that handful. However, the overwhelming majority of Trump voters act and think as if he is the Messiah and can do absolutely no wrong.
 
Callatoroy said:
Ford, I know this is a passionate issue for you so I’m going to respectfully not go down that road with you. I will say I disagree with the execution of several of the enforcement actions.
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It should be a passionate issue for anyone. Why should the lawless murder of American citizens by an American secret police not a passionate issue for you or for anyone else? What a bizarre thing to say.
 
CFordUNC said:
The thing that I appreciate most about Donald Trump is that he has completely exposed the hypocrisy that is American conservatism. MAGA Trumpism is a hell of a lot closer to the nanny police state type socialism that Republicans have been screaming about for decades.

Every single person who votes for Donald Trump and who claims that they are conservative is lying. There’s nothing conservative about dismantling the United States Constitution. There’s nothing conservative about cheering a secret police that reports only to the president being able to kill American citizens with impunity. There’s nothing conservative about buddying up to a Russian autocratic dictator. There’s nothing conservative about demolishing decades old alliances. There’s nothing conservative about threatening to assault or invade our democratic allies. There’s nothing conservative about federal intervention in states’ affairs. There’s nothing conservative about thumbing your nose at law and order. There’s nothing conservative about being so fiscally irresponsible as slashing taxes on the wealthiest while exploding reckless, limitless spending. Yet every single conservative on this thread, and every single conservative at large who voted for Trump, decided that they either never had actual conservative principles in the first place, or that those conservative principles are so malleable as to be so easily discarded the moment they become inconvenient when you have to pledge fealty to a cult.
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It's all about wanting a country only for straight white "Christians." It's always been about that from the beginning.
 
Ramrouser said:
They’re picking up criminals and gangbangers as well

Biden was the root cause of this. Maybe next Dem President won’t open the border for the world to burst through.
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Typical rapist logic from our resident Dark Triad personality.

You're an attorney in theory, so maybe you can appreciate following the law. And the law did not permit Biden to "just close the border." It didn't then and it doesn't now. That's why new legislation was needed. There was no "open border." The law required:

1. Anyone with a credible fear of persecution has to be given a hearing in front of an immigration judge. That is US law and it implements, among other things, the Geneva Convention's requirements.

2. The executive branch to be extremely underfunded, so much that immigrants were waiting a decade for their court hearing.

Those are what created the "open border." All the Pubs had to do was back a bipartisan bill increasing the # of immigration judges. That's all. Quintuple the ALJs and the backlog goes away. That's all you had to do. But instead you've trashed the country, destroyed most of what we have stood for during the Pax Americana and for what? Something you could have gotten by increasing funding to immigration enforcement.
 
@Callatoroy help me to understand what you mean. I’m genuinely trying to learn and understand your perspective. Are you saying that your support of Trump’s policies on transgenderism, DEI, immigration, foreign policy, etc. supersedes your own stated disagreement with his American Gestapo executing American citizens? Like, is having a Fourth Amendment-violating secret state police that answers to nobody but the executive branch of the federal government, who can murder American citizens or kidnap children with impunity, isn’t a line too far for you as long as the other policy goals around transgenderism, DEI, etc. etc. are accomplished? I’m sincerely trying to understand what you mean.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, is there no limit to your support? I feel like for me, if there were a president in office who was accomplishing quite literally every single social or fiscal policy aim that I’ve ever had, but who was also recruiting and overseeing a secret state police that was violating the constitution and murdering American citizens, I would be adamantly opposed to that president and would support his removal from office.
 
heelinhell said:
I take it that you are not concerned that Trump will withdraw us from NATO despite his threats. I hope you do agree that Trump is weakening our relationships with our European allies, Canada, and Australia. And I hope you have seen that our allies are now considering not sharing their 5 Eyes intelligence due to our recklessness handling such data which compromises our national security.
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No, im not at all concerned trump will withdraw us from NATO, nor the consideration of not sharing intelligence. We have the 2nd best spy network in the world and juvenile comments made by trump and the resulting “were insulted” comments coming from Europe aren’t going to stop the intelligence sharing that goes on behind the scenes. In other words, these guys / gals acting like a group of 13 year old girls isnt changing the world’s security. I also can maintain the situational context. All of those involved know trump is a short term blip in the context of “harming relationships”. It plays well in the media and gets people all nuts, but there is zero effect other than to keep people angry.
 
CFordUNC said:
I’ll say this as well. My hatred for Donald Trump is not specific or exclusive to Donald Trump. It extends every bit as much, and if not more so, to people like JD Vance and Stephen Miller and Mitch McConnell and essentially every single other Republican who has had the power and the ability to stop the madness at any point over the last half decade and has chosen not to do so. I do not have Trump derangement syndrome, I have Republican Party derangement syndrome.
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I appreciate the candor. Guess we have nothing further to discuss. Continued good fortune to you and your wife.
 
Callatoroy said:
I appreciate the candor. Guess we have nothing further to discuss. Continued good fortune to you and your wife.
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What in the world dude? Either you want to have good faith discussion with people of differing political viewpoints or you don’t. Which is it?

Like what on earth did I say in that post that possibly triggered you to want to take your ball and go home? All I said was that I do not hate Trump specifically, I hate all of the people who have enabled him. How in the world is that some sort of controversial statement?
 
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CFordUNC said:
Every single person who votes for Donald Trump and who claims that they are conservative is lying.
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Agree. Trump is anything but conservative. But he is the antithesis, at least in what he says, to Democrats And, at this point in time, that is clearly what people want Because, to a decent part of the country, the Democratic Party has gone completely off the rails.

There's also the misogyny factor, which likely contributed to why Trump could only beat females..
 
ZenMode said:
Agree. Trump is anything but conservative. But he is the antithesis, at least in what he says, to Democrats And, at this point in time, that is clearly what people want Because, to a decent part of the country, the Democratic Party has gone completely off the rails.
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Yeah, they are so off the rails compared to Trump and MAGA. Get out of here with that bullshit.
 
ZenMode said:
Agree. Trump is anything but conservative. But he is the antithesis, at least in what he says, to Democrats And, at this point in time, that is clearly what people want Because, to a decent part of the country, the Democratic Party has gone completely off the rails.

There's also the misogyny factor, which likely contributed to why Trump could only beat females..
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The polling clearly says it ain’t what people want anymore, thankfully.
 
Callatoroy said:
All of those involved know trump is a short term blip in the context of “harming relationships”
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Imagine you lead a country whose security relies on guarantees from America. And then this Blip - well, at least two nonconsecutive Blips so far - starts to hang that security guarantee over your head for a little more X. And the Blip starts to threaten tariffs if you don't do Y. And the Blip says Z today, but not Z tomorrow. And you realize that the Vice Blip and Secretary of Blip are both young guys who parrot the Blip and have aspirations to be the Blip one day. Is it responsible for you, as leader of that country, to continue to rely on the security guarantees of America? Or is the safer bet to seek your security elsewhere, either in developing your own weapons and armed forces or coming under the umbrella of a more reliable country?
 
wmheel1287 said:
It is absolutely about Trump. Trump himself has made the entire United States of America all about Donald Trump. You and I are his fiefdom. He does not have policy. He has persona. Donald Trump is the US at this point. We are no better as a nation than he is as an individual because his aim (readily enabled by the excuse makers) is to mold us into precisely that.

A policy discussion cannot be had where Trump is involved because he is so far beyond the acceptable range of humanity that it precludes all policy discussion.
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Not true but I’m at a loss of how to respond to that. I will never have the personal character and moral shortcomings he has. My parents ensured that. Im very proud my children won’t either. I interact daily with dozens of people in business and outside of business that are in no way impacted by how horrible a person he is and are proof that trump’s moral bankruptcy doesn’t define the nation. You have to find some peace. Turn off access to politics for a week. Get away from it because to say you can’t separate a policy decision from the individual is not rooted in logic. Im no expert, but hopefully you find some way to find some peace.
 
CFordUNC said:
The polling clearly says it ain’t what people want anymore, thankfully.
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Yep. The way the Trump administration has gone about deportations is, at the very least, classles and unprofessional, but possibly unconstitutional.

The good news is that Americans are recognizing that.
 
Callatoroy said:
Not true but I’m at a loss of how to respond to that. I will never have the personal character and moral shortcomings he has. My parents ensured that. Im very proud my children won’t either. I interact daily with dozens of people in business and outside of business that are in no way impacted by how horrible a person he is and are proof that trump’s moral bankruptcy doesn’t define the nation. You have to find some peace. Turn off access to politics for a week. Get away from it because to say you can’t separate a policy decision from the individual is not rooted in logic. Im no expert, but hopefully you find some way to find some peace.
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If you still support him then you are just as bad.
 
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