Hubert Davis Catch-all - HUBERT OFFICIALLY OUT

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nycfan said:
So I have not checked in I this thread in at least 10 pages and this is the first thing I see at the end …
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Just read the first post in January on this thread and then read “As far as I know I’ve never knocked up any of my ex’s.” and that sums it all up nicely
 
rodoheel said:
Your thesis is supposedly that by firing Davis too quickly. we will be more likely to end up like Indiana. So are you saying that Indiana fired their coaches too quickly? If so, then defend it. If not, then the comparison is irrelevant. Personally I think the problem is that they just hired the wrong coaches, not that they were too impatient and fired them too quickly.
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No, my thesis is firing Hubie after the success he has had runs the risk of going down the Indiana because they couldn't find a coach that could live up to Bobby Knight status.

Your thesis is Indiana made 8 wrong coaching choices following the retirement of a legend which sounds similar to the thesis presented year in and year out by our football fans that the reason for our mediocre success has been that we made the wrong coaching choices.

and I'm not saying we that we can't replace Hubie with the next Dean or Roy, but there is a risk we may not and that there is further risk that it could continue coach after coach after coach...
 
heelinhell said:
No, my thesis is firing Hubie after the success he has had runs the risk of going down the Indiana because they couldn't find a coach that could live up to Bobby Knight status.

Your thesis is Indiana made 8 wrong coaching choices following the retirement of a legend which sounds similar to the thesis presented year in and year out by our football fans that the reason for our mediocre success has been that we made the wrong coaching choices.

and I'm not saying we that we can't replace Hubie with the next Dean or Roy, but there is a risk we may not and that there is further risk that it could continue coach after coach after coach...
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What exactly are you saying that Indiana did wrong, that you don't want us to repeat? Is your belief that Indiana could have replicated the success of Bob Knight if it had been more patient, retained its coaches for longer and not cycled through them? If so, which coach and why? Or are you simply saying that Indiana's mistake was in even trying to replicate the success of Bob Knight, and that both Indiana then, and UNC now, should have accepted/should accept that we simply aren't an elite program anymore and be happy with a lower level of success? That you would rather just let Hubert stay as long as he wants, no matter what his level of success is compared to UNC's historical results?

Also not sure I understand the UNC football analogy. What are you saying is the reason for our mediocre football results? You think we should have kept Bunting longer? Should have kept Mack 2.0 longer? What are you saying is the lesson from UNC football that UNC basketball should take?
 
rodoheel said:
What exactly are you saying that Indiana did wrong, that you don't want us to repeat? Is your belief that Indiana could have replicated the success of Bob Knight if it had been more patient, retained its coaches for longer and not cycled through them?
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They only gave Mike Davis 6 years and Tom Crean 9 years...they were obviously just a couple of years away each time from rebuilding a dynasty.
 
rodoheel said:
What exactly are you saying that Indiana did wrong, that you don't want us to repeat? Is your belief that Indiana could have replicated the success of Bob Knight if it had been more patient, retained its coaches for longer and not cycled through them? If so, which coach and why? Or are you simply saying that Indiana's mistake was in even trying to replicate the success of Bob Knight, and that both Indiana then, and UNC now, should have accepted/should accept that we simply aren't an elite program anymore and be happy with a lower level of success? That you would rather just let Hubert stay as long as he wants, no matter what his level of success is compared to UNC's historical results?

Also not sure I understand the UNC football analogy. What are you saying is the reason for our mediocre football results? You think we should have kept Bunting longer? Should have kept Mack 2.0 longer? What are you saying is the lesson from UNC football that UNC basketball should take?
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I won't speak for heelinhell, but I'm saying you only replace HD if you have a slam dunk hire. Making the wrong choice just to move on is far worse than riding out the current choice until either A) he gets his **** in gear or B) we find a slam dunk hire to replace him.

Dealing with the wrong choice is probably a 3 to 5 season problem. Riding things out for him to step up or find the best choice is a season by season issue.
 
NYCBlueBlood said:
I won't speak for heelinhell, but I'm saying you only replace HD if you have a slam dunk hire. Making the wrong choice just to move on is far worse than riding out the current choice until either A) he gets his **** in gear or B) we find a slam dunk hire to replace him.

Dealing with the wrong choice is probably a 3 to 5 season problem. Riding things out for him to step up or find the best choice is a season by season issue.
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But how many up and down seasons do you wait to see if he is going to put together good to great seasons consistently?
 
NYCBlueBlood said:
I won't speak for heelinhell, but I'm saying you only replace HD if you have a slam dunk hire. Making the wrong choice just to move on is far worse than riding out the current choice until either A) he gets his **** in gear or B) we find a slam dunk hire to replace him.

Dealing with the wrong choice is probably a 3 to 5 season problem. Riding things out for him to step up or find the best choice is a season by season issue.
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Well, what is a "home run" hire is subjective. But personally, I think if you get to the point where you decide Hubert is not the guy to restore us to elite status (and I understand many people are not there yet; I'm on the fence myself), you have to make a move. Sitting pat with a coach in whom you don't have confidence because you're waiting for the stars to align on a "slam dunk hire" is exactly how a blue blood can stop becoming a blue blood.

We're never going to have the opportunity for a Roy Williams to fall into our lap again. It was a one-time thing. Sitting around and waiting for a slam-dunk HOF coach to be waiting for us to call him is just not the way to go, IMO. Either Hubert is the guy, or he isn't, and once you decide he isn't, you have to move on. There will never be a guarantee that the next guy works out but better to rip the band-aid than bleed out slowly.
 
NYCBlueBlood said:
I won't speak for heelinhell, but I'm saying you only replace HD if you have a slam dunk hire. Making the wrong choice just to move on is far worse than riding out the current choice until either A) he gets his **** in gear or B) we find a slam dunk hire to replace him.

Dealing with the wrong choice is probably a 3 to 5 season problem. Riding things out for him to step up or find the best choice is a season by season issue.
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What if we can never guarantee that there will be a slam dunk hire?

There are very few slam dunk hires available in CBB. And the ones that exist typically get retained by their current jobs unless they absolutely can't afford to pay them or the coach gets annoyed at the school and leaves.

If you take the top 10 coaches in CBB today, I would be that, at best, 1 of them were a "slam dunk hire" when their currents school hired them...and I wouldn't be at all surprised if none of them were.

I'll even go a step further and say that you can make a great case that the last "slam dunk hire" in CBB was Roy returning to Carolina and everything about that situation was completely atypical.

So, again, what do we do if there is no "slam dunk hire" available in the next 5 years?
 
SnoopRob said:
What if we can never guarantee that there will be a slam dunk hire?

There are very few slam dunk hires available in CBB. And the ones that exist typically get retained by their current jobs unless they absolutely can't afford to pay them or the coach gets annoyed at the school and leaves.

If you take the top 10 coaches in CBB today, I would be that, at best, 1 of them were a "slam dunk hire" when their currents school hired them...and I wouldn't be at all surprised if none of them were.

I'll even go a step further and say that you can make a great case that the last "slam dunk hire" in CBB was Roy returning to Carolina and everything about that situation was completely atypical.

So, again, what do we do if there is no "slam dunk hire" available in the next 5 years?
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After Roy, Calipari going from Memphis to UK in 2010 was probably a "slam dunk" hire. But I otherwise agree with you wholeheartedly.

And IMO the Cal hire is a great example of why blue bloods in particular should generally be aggressive, not passive. They ran Tubby Smith - who was more successful than Hubert for sure - out of town, and hired Billy Gillespie, who was a disaster. But they moved on immediately from that disaster, and hired Cal two years later. I'm confident no UK fan regrets them forcing Tubby out just because the immediate next coach was a disaster - because a short time later they had the right guy.

You simply cannot let the fear of a mistake prevent you from making a move when it becomes necessary.
 
rodoheel said:
I think he's going to get next season. But we simply have to see a top 10, nationally contending-type team next season. Otherwise I don't understand how anyone can have confidence that we're going to get back to being that type of team consistently.
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I agree. I just don't see next season being any better than the current one unless they get some elite players from the portal.
 
Turd Ferguson said:
I agree. I just don't see next season being any better than the current one unless they get some elite players from the portal.
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Well candidly I think any school that wants to be a consistent contender in the modern world of college bball is going to need to use the portal to get significant contributors almost every season. But yeah. I agree we will need to really nail the offseason.
 
Turd Ferguson said:
I agree. I just don't see next season being any better than the current one unless they get some elite players from the portal.
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And I am not sure what is available in the portal-even if we are an attractive spot still. I think we need at least 1 Euro guy
I mean its true for all teams. If a guy is really elite he is going League-not portal
 
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