thebruinbleedstarheelblue
Esteemed Member
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it was a bad loss because of the Cal/Stanford/SMU losses...or just revealing.
Hubert Davis Catch-all
- Thread starter LeoBloom
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- Replies: 561
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- UNC Sports
stankeylegjones
Iconic Member
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From an IC poster:
Percentage of weeks ranked since 2021-2022 season:
Houston 100%
Purdue 97%
Duke 91%
Kansas 91%
Kentucky 88%
Arizona 84%
UConn 84%
…
UNC 49%
Percentage of weeks ranked since 2021-2022 season:
Houston 100%
Purdue 97%
Duke 91%
Kansas 91%
Kentucky 88%
Arizona 84%
UConn 84%
…
UNC 49%
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- 366
He's serviceable is the thing. He's not a total disaster. So the key is to have the right person when we decide to move on, and not fire him for someone who could legitimately wreck the program if he doesn't work out. Like Bill Belichick.
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I almost feel like just go with him and ride out this weird college sports transition. The fact that no one can name an option that isn’t absurd like Brad Stevens makes me queasy about jumping back on the coaching carousel. Hubert’s not won me over but this team and the Harrison Ingram team make me think we should live with what we’ve got for a spell. When he can put the ingredients together they kinda sorta mostly look like Carolina teams. Maybe that’s ok for now. And in the end, he brought in Caleb who has really delivered.
Finding a coach wouldn't be that hard. Go to the Top 25. Scratch out the old coaches or Duke-affiliated coaches. That leaves about 15 excellent candidates, almost all of whom would jump at the opportunity.
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I don't really participate in this thread and rarely read posts on it. Im at least 3 pages behind but I do think one thing is worth saying. Dean Smith retired 30 years ago (29, but close enough). No current coach or coaching discussion should be compared to him. He coached in such a different era thay there is no way to know what a reasonable comparison is. We should honestly just leave him out of it when evaluating anything about the current basketball program.
thebruinbleedstarheelblue
Esteemed Member
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- 567
Serviceable ,at a big dog in this unfair system, means you are not good.
Frankly, that's horseshit.
I’m not sure I agree. It would be an interesting exercise: take the top 25 coaches. Remove any that are 65 or older. Remove any that simply wouldn’t come here. Remove any with ethical concerns. Who do you have left? And of those, who would we have realistic shot with? My guess is you’d have 3-4 realistic candidates, and none of which would be guaranteed to accept an offer.
tarheelbillie
Esteemed Member
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- 594
I remember the joke that “Dean doesn’t recruit, he selects”.
Yeah, not recognizing the differences in time periods and changes in recruiting and player movement would be like claiming Anson Dorrance forgot how to coach women's soccer. There could be some basis in that but a smarter bet might just be a more level playing field.
Centerpiece
Inconceivable Member
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You boys still debating.
Again, how many of you all have coached a team for pay?
Anybody here coached a HS team? A Middle School team? College team? A club team in Europe or South America?
Not talking about your kids’ soccer team, or your boy’s Rec-league, coach-pitch baseball team.
Were you ever given a steady paycheck to coach?
What sport?
Football? Baseball? Basketball? Soccer? Hockey?
Anybody remember Roy saying he was fed up having to teach/coach toughness, or “want to”?
I do. He said it multiple times towards the end of his tenure. Like Dean, he used to hardly ever throw his players under the bus. It was always the coach taking the blame for the loss and praising the players for the wins. Almost exclusively. But not at the end…
The last 2 or 3 years with Roy, amazingly, you started hearing him complain about how the kids he had on his team needed extra motivation to get up for a game, or how he and the assistants had to try and “coach” heart, energy, toughness, grit, determination, enthusiasm, etc.
At the end, he was constantly complaining about how he was tired of having to do that.
Recall several games under Roy - towards the end - when the team would come out flat in the first half. Only after Roy peeled the paint off in the locker room would the team come out and play with a little fire in the belly.
Hubert is having to deal with a little bit of that too.
I coached over 25 years for a paycheck in organized leagues and conferences at the Club level in Europe and at the middle school and high school levels in the U.S. Admittedly I was an assistant coach most of those years and head coach for only 6 or 7 years.
It ain’t always the X’s and O’s… it’s the Jimmys and Joes.
Some years you would have all The talent in the world, and all you had to do as a coach would be roll the ball out there and say “go get em boys.”Just stay out of the way, coach, and let the big dogs eat. And an undefeated season and a conference championship was yours.
Other seasons, you wouldn’t have great talent just a collection of kids who wanted to wear the uniform. The head coach and assistants could coach their asses off, trying different things, trying new things, switching players’ positions, starting different groups of kids over others, trying to teach heart, grit and determination… All to no avail. You wound up with a losing record, and finishing near the bottom of the conference standings.
It wasn’t the fact you forgot how to coach…
Brady Manek and those guys caught fire in the second half of the season, figured out a way to play together as a team. They almost carried Hubert to the top of the mountain. Take away a Bacot ankle twist and a Brady knock on the head and they would’ve climbed that mountain.
(Notice I said “they” carried Hubert, not the other way around)
Year 2 - discord in the locker room and egos got in the way and there was no Brady Manek but a Nance. The right collection of Jimmys and Joes wasn’t there.
Year 3 - Voilà! Jimmy (Cormac) and Joe (Harrison) stepped in and one of the egos from the previous season left the team. Presto!
Last year - no big man on campus… not the right collection of Jimmys and Joes. Oops!
This year - Aha! We got some Jimmys and Joes on the squad once again. How will it end? Time will tell.
But the same sort of issues Roy had toward the end of his career are still there. How do you keep the motivation up and running within the team on a continual basis? Game to game, day to day, practice to practice, first half and second half?
You’d have to ask Roy what that is with the kids these days.
We start two freshmen. Only one of which is 5 star. The other is point guard.
I for one am willing to let the season play out and take stock then.
But the rumors I hear about what the powers that be are thinking: Hubert may be toast. I think a FF run may be the only thing that gives him year 6.
Again, how many of you all have coached a team for pay?
Anybody here coached a HS team? A Middle School team? College team? A club team in Europe or South America?
Not talking about your kids’ soccer team, or your boy’s Rec-league, coach-pitch baseball team.
Were you ever given a steady paycheck to coach?
What sport?
Football? Baseball? Basketball? Soccer? Hockey?
Anybody remember Roy saying he was fed up having to teach/coach toughness, or “want to”?
I do. He said it multiple times towards the end of his tenure. Like Dean, he used to hardly ever throw his players under the bus. It was always the coach taking the blame for the loss and praising the players for the wins. Almost exclusively. But not at the end…
The last 2 or 3 years with Roy, amazingly, you started hearing him complain about how the kids he had on his team needed extra motivation to get up for a game, or how he and the assistants had to try and “coach” heart, energy, toughness, grit, determination, enthusiasm, etc.
At the end, he was constantly complaining about how he was tired of having to do that.
Recall several games under Roy - towards the end - when the team would come out flat in the first half. Only after Roy peeled the paint off in the locker room would the team come out and play with a little fire in the belly.
Hubert is having to deal with a little bit of that too.
I coached over 25 years for a paycheck in organized leagues and conferences at the Club level in Europe and at the middle school and high school levels in the U.S. Admittedly I was an assistant coach most of those years and head coach for only 6 or 7 years.
It ain’t always the X’s and O’s… it’s the Jimmys and Joes.
Some years you would have all The talent in the world, and all you had to do as a coach would be roll the ball out there and say “go get em boys.”Just stay out of the way, coach, and let the big dogs eat. And an undefeated season and a conference championship was yours.
Other seasons, you wouldn’t have great talent just a collection of kids who wanted to wear the uniform. The head coach and assistants could coach their asses off, trying different things, trying new things, switching players’ positions, starting different groups of kids over others, trying to teach heart, grit and determination… All to no avail. You wound up with a losing record, and finishing near the bottom of the conference standings.
It wasn’t the fact you forgot how to coach…
Brady Manek and those guys caught fire in the second half of the season, figured out a way to play together as a team. They almost carried Hubert to the top of the mountain. Take away a Bacot ankle twist and a Brady knock on the head and they would’ve climbed that mountain.
(Notice I said “they” carried Hubert, not the other way around)
Year 2 - discord in the locker room and egos got in the way and there was no Brady Manek but a Nance. The right collection of Jimmys and Joes wasn’t there.
Year 3 - Voilà! Jimmy (Cormac) and Joe (Harrison) stepped in and one of the egos from the previous season left the team. Presto!
Last year - no big man on campus… not the right collection of Jimmys and Joes. Oops!
This year - Aha! We got some Jimmys and Joes on the squad once again. How will it end? Time will tell.
But the same sort of issues Roy had toward the end of his career are still there. How do you keep the motivation up and running within the team on a continual basis? Game to game, day to day, practice to practice, first half and second half?
You’d have to ask Roy what that is with the kids these days.
We start two freshmen. Only one of which is 5 star. The other is point guard.
I for one am willing to let the season play out and take stock then.
But the rumors I hear about what the powers that be are thinking: Hubert may be toast. I think a FF run may be the only thing that gives him year 6.
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Completely disagree. Kind of weird how blithely you assert something that anyone with a smidge of understanding of the current landscape knows is false.
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To be fair, I do think a lot of that "kids these days" simply has to do with getting older and more tired. I know for a fact that Coach Fox felt that way his last couple of years and that Forbes doesnt feel that way now.
That is, to me, entirely expected and understandable.
CRHeel94
Honored Member
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- 904
Here's the list of top 25 with their respective coaches.
Arizona - Tommy Lloyd
Michigan - Dusty May
Houston - Kelvin Sampson 60+
Duke - Scheyer
Iowa State- TJ Otzelberger
U Conn - Dan Hurley
Nebraska - Fred Hoiberg
Illinois - Brad Underwood 60+
Kansas - Bill Self 60+
Michigan State - Tom Izzo 60+
Gonzaga - Mark Few 60+
Purdue - Matt Painter (Purdue alum)
Florida - Todd Golden
Virginia - Ryan Odom
Texas Tech - Grant McCasland
St Johns - Pitino 60+
St Louis - Josh Schertz
Vanderbilt - Mark Byington
Clemson - Brad Brownwell
Arkansas - Calipari 60+
BYU - Kevin Young
Miami (OH) - Travis Steele
Louisville - Pat Kelsey
Kentucky - Pope
Can't say that list exactly bowls me over. I'd keep an eye on the the Vandy guy.
Arizona - Tommy Lloyd
Michigan - Dusty May
Houston - Kelvin Sampson 60+
Duke - Scheyer
Iowa State- TJ Otzelberger
U Conn - Dan Hurley
Nebraska - Fred Hoiberg
Illinois - Brad Underwood 60+
Kansas - Bill Self 60+
Michigan State - Tom Izzo 60+
Gonzaga - Mark Few 60+
Purdue - Matt Painter (Purdue alum)
Florida - Todd Golden
Virginia - Ryan Odom
Texas Tech - Grant McCasland
St Johns - Pitino 60+
St Louis - Josh Schertz
Vanderbilt - Mark Byington
Clemson - Brad Brownwell
Arkansas - Calipari 60+
BYU - Kevin Young
Miami (OH) - Travis Steele
Louisville - Pat Kelsey
Kentucky - Pope
Can't say that list exactly bowls me over. I'd keep an eye on the the Vandy guy.
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Who in CBB does "bowl you over"?
Centerpiece
Inconceivable Member
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- 3,263
Totally get that. It happens. It happened to this old ball coach.
One of the tricks is to figure out which Jimmy you had to get up in their grill and grab them by the facemask and jerk a knot in their tail to get more out of them... and then knowing which Joe you had to put an arm around their shoulder, whisper sweet nothings in their ear to try and "motivate" them to concentrate and play harder, because using the other method would just drive them further back into their shell. Devastated. Useless for the rest of the game, and perhaps for the rest of the season.
Coaching can be like treading on ice and walking atop the fence... and then there's the parents... and the fans on social media. Ugh.
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Don't bet against Todd Golden
Now I doubt if he does real good again in the tournament that he would want to leave
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Centerpiece
Inconceivable Member
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And Hubert checks in right in the middle of that bunch starting 2 freshmen and only one returnee from last season.
CarolinaFever
Legend of ZZL
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I would take a look at Byington, Otzelberger and even Hoiberg.