Hubert Davis Catch-all

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Calheel said:
Finding a coach wouldn't be that hard. Go to the Top 25. Scratch out the old coaches or Duke-affiliated coaches. That leaves about 15 excellent candidates, almost all of whom would jump at the opportunity.
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This is a joke, right? Your suggested process would nominate Hubert to replace himself.

If your post was serious, you should hide your head in a bag for a week.
 
superrific said:
This is a joke, right? Your suggested process would nominate Hubert to replace himself.

If your post was serious, you should hide your head in a bag for a week.
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There are only a few Duke and too old coaches. So the 15 number weeded out a few, including Hubert.
 
uncjhodges said:
Byington has Vandy in the top 15 of kenpom starting 2 of Hubert’s cast offs. Guys i know from Vandy love him and hope they can keep him long term
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I didn't realize Jalen Washington was getting run. Good for him. I always liked him.

Lots of coaches have a good year or two. Here are some naismith award winners from recent years:

Jamie Dixon (Pitt). Wanna hire him, lol?
Steve Fisher (2010). LOL.
Anthony Grant (2020). One great season. Had previously run Bama into the ground. He's made two NCAA tournaments in nine years (counting the sure bid they would have had in the cancelled tournament).
Ed Cooley: Great season with Providence. Has a 39-50 record overall at G'Town.
Jerome Tang -- led K-State to the Elite 8 three years ago. Now they are 10-14, including 1-10 in conference.

So let's see if Byington can do anything over time, or if he's just having a good year.
 
Calheel said:
There are only a few Duke and too old coaches. So the 15 number weeded out a few, including Hubert.
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How did you weed out Hubert? Just arbitrarily? And the idea that current placement in the Top 25 somehow evaluates the head coach is so bonkers I'd expect it from Callatoroy.
 
Centerpiece said:
Totally get that. It happens. It happened to this old ball coach.

One of the tricks is to figure out which Jimmy you had to get up in their grill and grab them by the facemask and jerk a knot in their tail to get more out of them... and then knowing which Joe you had to put an arm around their shoulder, whisper sweet nothings in their ear to try and "motivate" them to concentrate and play harder, because using the other method would just drive them further back into their shell. Devastated. Useless for the rest of the game, and perhaps for the rest of the season.

Coaching can be like treading on ice and walking atop the fence... and then there's the parents... and the fans on social media. Ugh.
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You are 100% right about all of this. The single most wasted baseball talent at Carolina was Tyrell Godwin. To be fair, his talent was wasted at every level because no coach ever figured him out, but Mike Fox was the worst combination for him. Delicate flower would be a generous description of Tyrell.
 
superrific said:
I didn't realize Jalen Washington was getting run. Good for him. I always liked him.

Lots of coaches have a good year or two. Here are some naismith award winners from recent years:

Jamie Dixon (Pitt). Wanna hire him, lol?
Steve Fisher (2010). LOL.
Anthony Grant (2020). One great season. Had previously run Bama into the ground. He's made two NCAA tournaments in nine years (counting the sure bid they would have had in the cancelled tournament).
Ed Cooley: Great season with Providence. Has a 39-50 record overall at G'Town.
Jerome Tang -- led K-State to the Elite 8 three years ago. Now they are 10-14, including 1-10 in conference.

So let's see if Byington can do anything over time, or if he's just having a good year.
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Yeah, there is a real danger in hiring a flash-in-the-pan coach that has had a couple of good years that may be more due to individual players or team chemistry that isn’t likely to be replicated long term. See Matt Doherty.
 
Otzelberger coaches Iowa State like he still has South Dakota talent and I appreciate that about his coaching style so much. Don't love the tiny polo shirt :ROFLMAO:
 
superrific said:
I didn't realize Jalen Washington was getting run. Good for him. I always liked him.

Lots of coaches have a good year or two. Here are some naismith award winners from recent years:

Jamie Dixon (Pitt). Wanna hire him, lol?
Steve Fisher (2010). LOL.
Anthony Grant (2020). One great season. Had previously run Bama into the ground. He's made two NCAA tournaments in nine years (counting the sure bid they would have had in the cancelled tournament).
Ed Cooley: Great season with Providence. Has a 39-50 record overall at G'Town.
Jerome Tang -- led K-State to the Elite 8 three years ago. Now they are 10-14, including 1-10 in conference.

So let's see if Byington can do anything over time, or if he's just having a good year.
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I get that, but Byingtons won everywhere he’s been (a little Cignetti esque in that regard) He won 20 games at Georgia Southern 3 straight years (they only have won 20 games 3 other times period and one of those was also Byington), won 30+ games at JMU and took over Vandys dumpster fire and has rapidly improved them over the last 2 years. I would have much more concerns about TJO than i would Byington
 
I am not saying limit the selection to the Top 25, but it is certainly a good place to start. A "yes" means we should go after/consider.

1. Arizona - Tommy Lloyd (51) - yes
2. Michigan - Dusty May (49) - yes
3. Houston - Kelvin Sampson (70) - nope
4. Duke - C'mon
5. Iowa State - TJ Otzelberger (48) - yes
6. UConn - Danny Hurley (53) - nope
7. Nebraska - Fred Hoiberg (53) - yes
8. Illinois - Brad Underwood (62) - nope
9. Kansas - Bill Self (63) - nope
10. Michigan State - Tom Izzo (71) - nope
11. Hubert
12. Gonzaga - Mark Few (63) - nope
13. Purdue - Matt Painter (55) - yes
14. Florida - Todd Golden (40) - nope
15. UVa - Ryan Odom (51) - yes
16. Texas Tech - Grant McCasland (49) - yes
17. St. Johns - Rick Pitino (73) - nope
18. St. Louis - Josh Schertz (50) - yes
19. Vanderbilt - Mark Byington (49) - yes
20. Clemson - Brad Brownell (55) - yes
21. Arkansas - John Calipari (67) - nope
22. BYU - Kevin Young (44) - yes
23. Miami of Ohio - Travis Steele (44) - yes
24. Louisville - Pat Kelsey (50) - yes
25. Kentucky - Mark Pope (53) - nope

That is 13 excellent candidates to start a search. Obviously, there are good candidates outside the Top 25, too. I really like the Minnesota coach, for example. Could we easily get Tommy Lloyd or Dusty May? No, that would not be easy. But we are one of the very best jobs in college basketball and we would certainly have a good shot at it, depending upon the financial resources we could muster.
 
Calheel said:
I am not saying limit the selection to the Top 25, but it is certainly a good place to start. A "yes" means we should go after/consider.

1. Arizona - Tommy Lloyd (51) - yes
2. Michigan - Dusty May (49) - yes
3. Houston - Kelvin Sampson (70) - nope
4. Duke - C'mon
5. Iowa State - TJ Otzelberger (48) - yes
6. UConn - Danny Hurley (53) - nope
7. Nebraska - Fred Hoiberg (53) - yes
8. Illinois - Brad Underwood (62) - nope
9. Kansas - Bill Self (63) - nope
10. Michigan State - Tom Izzo (71) - nope
11. Hubert
12. Gonzaga - Mark Few (63) - nope
13. Purdue - Matt Painter (55) - yes
14. Florida - Todd Golden (40) - nope
15. UVa - Ryan Odom (51) - yes
16. Texas Tech - Grant McCasland (49) - yes
17. St. Johns - Rick Pitino (73) - nope
18. St. Louis - Josh Schertz (50) - yes
19. Vanderbilt - Mark Byington (49) - yes
20. Clemson - Brad Brownell (55) - yes
21. Arkansas - John Calipari (67) - nope
22. BYU - Kevin Young (44) - yes
23. Miami of Ohio - Travis Steele (44) - yes
24. Louisville - Pat Kelsey (50) - yes
25. Kentucky - Mark Pope (53) - nope

That is 13 excellent candidates to start a search. Obviously, there are good candidates outside the Top 25, too. I really like the Minnesota coach, for example. Could we easily get Tommy Lloyd or Dusty May? No, that would not be easy. But we are one of the very best jobs in college basketball and we would certainly have a good shot at it, depending upon the financial resources we could muster.
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Yikes.
 
superrific said:
Of course you would. None of them have a proven track record. These recommendations are like buying bitcoin at $100K.
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If you are going to rule out all possible replacements because they are not experienced enough or they are too experienced, then you are never firing a coach.

Almost all coach hirings are a bit of a gamble. It is rare you get a Bill Self at Kansas or a Roy Williams at UNC. Most of the times you are taking a bit of a flyer.
 
Willy said:
Yeah, there is a real danger in hiring a flash-in-the-pan coach that has had a couple of good years that may be more due to individual players or team chemistry that isn’t likely to be replicated long term. See Matt Doherty.
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This^
It's the Jimmys and Joes coupled with "chemistry"

How many times did Roy say: "more gifted" "We were more gifted than they were"
Roy used the phrase "We were more gifted" on multiple occasions throughout his career to describe a talent discrepancy between his team and an opponent, often following games where his team won despite a poor performance or, in some cases, to explain why they should have won.

No matter what happens with Hubert moving forward - or any other coach - it will always be the same.
Having great X's and O's is fine and dandy... but you'd better have some gifted players AND those players better have great chemistry. Theo, Joel Berry, JJ, Kennedy, Isiah, Roy had GREAT chemistry AND they were all gifted.

Many times when, both squads are exactly equal in terms of talent level (and chemistry in the locker room) does a coach or a coach's decision (or expertise in X's and O's) come into play.
 
uncjhodges said:
I get that, but Byingtons won everywhere he’s been (a little Cignetti esque in that regard) He won 20 games at Georgia Southern 3 straight years (they only have won 20 games 3 other times period and one of those was also Byington), won 30+ games at JMU and took over Vandys dumpster fire and has rapidly improved them over the last 2 years. I would have much more concerns about TJO than i would Byington
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I don't know anything about him other than what I just looked up, so I won't make any serious comments specific to him. I would say that you're describing the resume of an awful lot of small school coaches who got hired for big programs and didn't succeed. It's also the resume of some coaches who moved up and were very successful. So it's a risk.

I do think that if we hired him, there would be a lot of underwhelmed fans and much gnashing of teeth the minute he started losing some games.

There would be a lot more support for guys like Painter or May who have proven the ability to get to the top of the whole sport.

I'm not sure that the replacement should factor into the decision about HD. If he's the guy, he's the guy. If not, then let him go and find a new guy. It's not possible to know who can be gotten until there is an opening, a job offer, etc.

My sense is that people -- on this board, at least -- want to shoot for the top. If we get another guy who doesn't get us there, then we will try again.
 
Calheel said:
I am not saying limit the selection to the Top 25, but it is certainly a good place to start. A "yes" means we should go after/consider.

1. Arizona - Tommy Lloyd (51) - yes
2. Michigan - Dusty May (49) - yes
3. Houston - Kelvin Sampson (70) - nope
4. Duke - C'mon
5. Iowa State - TJ Otzelberger (48) - yes
6. UConn - Danny Hurley (53) - nope
7. Nebraska - Fred Hoiberg (53) - yes
8. Illinois - Brad Underwood (62) - nope
9. Kansas - Bill Self (63) - nope
10. Michigan State - Tom Izzo (71) - nope
11. Hubert
12. Gonzaga - Mark Few (63) - nope
13. Purdue - Matt Painter (55) - yes
14. Florida - Todd Golden (40) - nope
15. UVa - Ryan Odom (51) - yes
16. Texas Tech - Grant McCasland (49) - yes
17. St. Johns - Rick Pitino (73) - nope
18. St. Louis - Josh Schertz (50) - yes
19. Vanderbilt - Mark Byington (49) - yes
20. Clemson - Brad Brownell (55) - yes
21. Arkansas - John Calipari (67) - nope
22. BYU - Kevin Young (44) - yes
23. Miami of Ohio - Travis Steele (44) - yes
24. Louisville - Pat Kelsey (50) - yes
25. Kentucky - Mark Pope (53) - nope

That is 13 excellent candidates to start a search. Obviously, there are good candidates outside the Top 25, too. I really like the Minnesota coach, for example. Could we easily get Tommy Lloyd or Dusty May? No, that would not be easy. But we are one of the very best jobs in college basketball and we would certainly have a good shot at it, depending upon the financial resources we could muster.
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Look at your inclusion of Kevin Young. The guy is in his second season as a head coach. His first season went OK, I guess, but he didn't meaningfully improve on the results from the previous season. This year he has a top 3 NBA draft pick and one of the top 2 or 3 players in the country, and they are 5-5 in conference.

This is not a profile of an excellent candidate. The fact that BYU happens to be in the top 25 is not meaningful.

Or Travis Steele. Dude got fired at Xavier. In his first season at Miami (OH) they were worse than the previous year. Only this year, his 8th in coaching, has he seen any real results. Again, mere inclusion in a Top 25 list is not a meaningful criterion.
 
superrific said:
Look at your inclusion of Kevin Young. The guy is in his second season as a head coach. His first season went OK, I guess, but he didn't meaningfully improve on the results from the previous season. This year he has a top 3 NBA draft pick and one of the top 2 or 3 players in the country, and they are 5-5 in conference.

This is not a profile of an excellent candidate. The fact that BYU happens to be in the top 25 is not meaningful.

Or Travis Steele. Dude got fired at Xavier. In his first season at Miami (OH) they were worse than the previous year. Only this year, his 8th in coaching, has he seen any real results. Again, mere inclusion in a Top 25 list is not a meaningful criterion.
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Yes, you can certainly critique any candidate. And obviously, some on that list are better candidates than others.

I think Kevin Young is an excellent coach. This particular BYU team is going through a rough patch, but I'd hate to see how we would perform with a Big 12 schedule. I went to the BYU-UNC game in Utah and at no point during that game, up through and including the last play for Trimble, did I think we had a coaching advantage.

I am not saying I think Kevin Young is the guy. But if you were conducting a coaching search, I would have him on the list.
 
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