Hubert Davis Catch-all

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heel79 said:
Not being silly.
I truly struggle with the volume of hate directed at Hubert. Some is clearly racial. I still hear comments like he is not up to the job, he has low ceiling, etc. We are 20-5 after a poor season with wins over Kansas Kentucky dook and Virginia. If the standard is dean, which it appears to be, those days are over.
Dook is an anomaly because of the war chest. Kelvin Sampson might be best coach in college. Hurley up there too.
There is parity now.
There is no one who wants this job. I am just glad that Hubert continues to grow as a coach, both on sidelines and in recruiting.
It could get ugly without Caleb. We will see. But if UNC fired Hubert, I still say it will be a PR nightmare. Remember, Hubert was in the studio. Those guys like him. Firing an AA coach who averages 25 wins a year after his lottery pick goes out with so-called MAGA leadership making the call .... ?
Amazed folks look the other way on this.
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you just left out a lot of key performance issues.

25 wins per year doesn't mean anything... there are two disasters under his belt.
 
Enigma94 said:
I'm not in the fire HD camp just yet, but you keep repeating 25 wins a year as if that's the only metric. Who those wins are against, average finish in the ACC, and tournament results are also part of the package and those aren't as clear cut in terms of being good enough to keep him.
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I understand. It's a soundbite that would be used. Context or even truth matters not at all to these talking heads. I watched cowherd on Thursday after Clemson say BB spent 4 days in Nantucket, had initiated buyout talk and was totally checked out. I missed him apologizing for being wrong.
 
LeoBloom said:
But it seems you are working under the assumption that the AD is not doing their job. I mean, people have thrown out a bunch of names on this very thread. Some of those are probably not realistic. Some probably are.

I'm not saying I trust the current administration when it comes to hiring coaches for our marquee sports, but if Hubert leaves, there very well may be a plan in place and we are not privy to it. Just because fans on a message board cannot give you a concrete plan of succession does not mean the professionals in place will not have a plan in place. Again, I can fully understand your not trusting the current administration when it comes to making those decisions. I don't fully trust them either.
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I saw two names. Lloyd and oats and the poster who introduced them dismissed them. We're there big names wanting Kentucky when calipari left? Honest question. Mark pope is 41-20.
 
heel79 said:
I understand. It's a soundbite that would be used. Context or even truth matters not at all to these talking heads. I watched cowherd on Thursday after Clemson say BB spent 4 days in Nantucket, had initiated buyout talk and was totally checked out. I missed him apologizing for being wrong.
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I don't think you can worry about idiots like Cowherd when making decisions like this. Nobody really cares what they say ultimately. I just want to wait until the end of the season to make a call. Based on results so far this year, I'd lean towards keeping him, but the results haven't been so great that he'd be out of the woods next year. Unfortunately his results have been so inconsistent that he needs a true breakout year to get off the hot seat. If he had made the tournament every year so far and was getting top 4 seeds each year I think people would be happy with this year, but he's had two dreadful years that are making it hard to use this year as a benchmark that he's turned the corner.
 
Enigma94 said:
Unfortunately his results have been so inconsistent that he needs a true breakout year to get off the hot seat. I
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And lets not forget a true breakout year can be achieved by a few hot weeks in March/April after getting a 5 seed!!
 
heel79 said:
The absence here of serious replies buttresses my argument and that of others and makes those offering look kinda silly. I mean, do I really need to remind folks that before you fire a coach averaging 25 wins a year, there should be some semblance of a plan?
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Let me first say that I am hoping for a successful finish to this season which would result in Hubert being here next season, and perhaps beyond, before further chiming in. I also see validity in differing viewpoints.

Having said that, I think pointing to the 25 wins per season is cherry picking. It’s just one part of a bigger picture. One could also focus on the fact that, over the last 3 seasons, we have only 2 NCAAT victories (not including the play-in game last year). That is obviously nowhere close to the minimum expectations most of us regarding how UNC basketball should perform in the postseason. The only 3-year stretches that were as bad or worse since at-large bids started in 1975 were 2001-03 (1 NCAAT win), 2002-04 (1 NCAAT win), and 2019-21 (2 NCAAT wins; of course there was no NCAAT in 2020, but we wouldn’t have made it if there were). And those 3-year stretches included three of the worst seasons in UNC basketball history.
 
I asked @SnoopRob when he was in school because I was wondering what his most basic undergrad experience might have been. We all have one. I've got grad school to figure in as well (and I went to grad school for a looooong time and lived in the UNC bubble even longer...essentially 1976 until 2008). Of course I was a Carolina fan as far back as I can remember (Charlie Scott days).

Snoop was here for...


95-96 21-11, 10-6(3rd) ncaa second round exit
96-97 28-7, 11-5(2nd) ncaa Final Four
Guthridge takes over
97-98 34-4, 13-3(2nd) Final Four
98-99 24-10, 10-6(3rd) ncaa first round exit

I was here for...

76-77 28-5, 9-3(1st) ncaa runner-up
77-78 23-8, 9-3(1st) ncaa first round
78-79 23-6, 9-3(T-1st) ncaa second round
79-80 21-8, 9-5(T-2nd) ncaa second round

Not speaking for Snoop at all but for me I think those four years did a lot to shape my sense of Carolina basketball even though it was a religious experience I was already enveloped by when I arrived on campus in August of '76.

That first year when an injury-plagued and badly hobbled team went to the Final game and lost seems to have solidified in me an already existing love for every player on the roster and the chance that they might step-up (It was Kuester that shone during that NCAA tournament, not Phil Ford nor Walter Davis, in my remembering of things). But those other three years would qualify around here (adjusting for changing times is difficult I know) as only "good" ones.

Snoop's ride as an undergrad is a bit wilder even with two Final Fours sandwiched by a second round and a first round exit from the tournament and the sudden retirement of Coach Smith.

I don't know what I'm really trying to say here -- just searching for some perspective.
 
heel79 said:
I saw two names. Lloyd and oats and the poster who introduced them dismissed them. We're there big names wanting Kentucky when calipari left? Honest question. Mark pope is 41-20.
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The floor is someone like Mark Byington

Top tier (though maybe unrealistic at this pt for a variety of reasons)
Dusty May
Todd Golden
Lloyd

More realistic tier
Oats (this is right up our current admins ally though he makes my skin crawl)
TJ O
Byington
Hoiberg
Mccasland
Ryan Odom

Kentucky thought they had scott drew and i don’t really remember a serious flirtation with anyone else outside of maybe Oats.
They settled for Pope after that. Pope had them as a 3 seed last year and they’re having a very similar year to us (we’re 27 and 28 in kenpom) this year. So he’s been better than Hubert in his 2 years
 
uncjhodges said:
The floor is someone like Mark Byington

Top tier (though maybe unrealistic at this pt for a variety of reasons)
Dusty May
Todd Golden
Lloyd

More realistic tier
Oats (this is right up our current admins ally though he makes my skin crawl)
TJ O
Byington
Hoiberg
Mccasland
Ryan Odom

Kentucky thought they had scott drew and i don’t really remember a serious flirtation with anyone else outside of maybe Oats.
They settled for Pope after that. Pope had them as a 3 seed last year and they’re having a very similar year to us (we’re 27 and 28 in kenpom) this year. So he’s been better than Hubert in his 2 years
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Really. We lost in title game. He is 41-20. But that is not even the point. They settled, as you say, for Mark pope. Was their door not being knocked down?
 
uncjhodges said:
The floor is someone like Mark Byington

Top tier (though maybe unrealistic at this pt for a variety of reasons)
Dusty May
Todd Golden
Lloyd

More realistic tier
Oats (this is right up our current admins ally though he makes my skin crawl)
TJ O
Byington
Hoiberg
Mccasland
Ryan Odom

Kentucky thought they had scott drew and i don’t really remember a serious flirtation with anyone else outside of maybe Oats.
They settled for Pope after that. Pope had them as a 3 seed last year and they’re having a very similar year to us (we’re 27 and 28 in kenpom) this year. So he’s been better than Hubert in his 2 years
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Not that Ryan Odom is an ideal candidate, but I bet having grown up as the son of an assistant coach at Wake and UVA and then a head coach at Wake, he has a deep-seated hatred for UNC basketball.
 
NYCBlueBlood said:
After the disasterous west coast trip... and yes, it was a disaster... we reeled off 5 straight wins, including @UVA and dook. In an expected trap road game against a good (but not great) Miami, we were in it to the last minute with the entirety of our front court playing severerly injured. Heck, even though Pitt is only a top 100ish kind of team, we beat them start to finish with a starting center who half our fan base throws a fit every time he stands up off the bench... plus a 3 man playing the 4. There is/ was reason to believe this team has turned a corner.

I don't want to put too much on one game, but I think how we play tomorrow vs State will tell us a lot. IMO there is still a chance we can finish the regular season 5-2, even without Caleb, if we continue playing as we have been in Feb.
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Pass that joint, I want some.
 
Enigma94 said:
I don't think you can worry about idiots like Cowherd when making decisions like this.
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Yeah, if you're making program decisions based on winning over the Cowherd/Stephen A/McAfee set, you might as well close down the program. Over the long-term, there is no satisfying those folks.

Enigma94 said:
Unfortunately his results have been so inconsistent that he needs a true breakout year to get off the hot seat.
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I think this is a point that needs to be amplified.

For a lot of the "HD needs to go" folks, it's going to take a season where we're (at least) top 5-8 wire to wire AND we make the E8/F4 to even start to change the conversation.

People get that not every season is going to be the program's best, but where a lot of folks who aren't sold on HD are really concerned is that we've yet to put together a complete season in which Carolina is at/near the top of CBB.
 
donbosco said:
I asked @SnoopRob when he was in school because I was wondering what his most basic undergrad experience might have been. We all have one. I've got grad school to figure in as well (and I went to grad school for a looooong time and lived in the UNC bubble even longer...essentially 1976 until 2008). Of course I was a Carolina fan as far back as I can remember (Charlie Scott days).

Snoop was here for...


95-96 21-11, 10-6(3rd) ncaa second round exit
96-97 28-7, 11-5(2nd) ncaa Final Four
Guthridge takes over
97-98 34-4, 13-3(2nd) Final Four
98-99 24-10, 10-6(3rd) ncaa first round exit

I was here for...

76-77 28-5, 9-3(1st) ncaa runner-up
77-78 23-8, 9-3(1st) ncaa first round
78-79 23-6, 9-3(T-1st) ncaa second round
79-80 21-8, 9-5(T-2nd) ncaa second round

Not speaking for Snoop at all but for me I think those four years did a lot to shape my sense of Carolina basketball even though it was a religious experience I was already enveloped by when I arrived on campus in August of '76.

That first year when an injury-plagued and badly hobbled team went to the Final game and lost seems to have solidified in me an already existing love for every player on the roster and the chance that they might step-up (It was Kuester that shone during that NCAA tournament, not Phil Ford nor Walter Davis, in my remembering of things). But those other three years would qualify around here (adjusting for changing times is difficult I know) as only "good" ones.

Snoop's ride as an undergrad is a bit wilder even with two Final Fours sandwiched by a second round and a first round exit from the tournament and the sudden retirement of Coach Smith.

I don't know what I'm really trying to say here -- just searching for some perspective.
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I was in undergrad at UNC from 05-09. Feel extremely fortunate to have been on campus at a time when the basketball program was at a zenith. My parents are early 80s UNC grads so I grew up on Carolina basketball. My earliest memories are Dean’s final few seasons, but realistically I came of age as a fan during the Gutridge/Doherty era lol. I guess it didn’t feel quite as bleak to me at the time with childhood innocence, but Dook being on top of the college basketball world while UNC was at its nadir made for an interesting point in time to get into the sport. I do think it made the 05 title and my memories of the team while I was in school that much more gratifying.
 
I do wonder if during these early stages of the NIL era, schools are less concerned about hiring a proven head coach or a really hot name in coaching and are rather focusing more on hiring someone they think is merely competent, thinking they can pay that person less and save the money for NIL for the players, with the assumption that if you can bring in the talent, that will make the difference.
 
SnoopRob said:
Yeah, if you're making program decisions based on winning over the Cowherd/Stephen A/McAfee set, you might as well close down the program. Over the long-term, there is no satisfying those folks.


I think this is a point that needs to be amplified.

For a lot of the "HD needs to go" folks, it's going to take a season where we're (at least) top 5-8 wire to wire AND we make the E8/F4 to even start to change the conversation.

People get that not every season is going to be the program's best, but where a lot of folks who aren't sold on HD are really concerned is that we've yet to put together a complete season in which Carolina is at/near the top of CBB.
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That first point regarding those sports media guys is on point. Their whole shtick is to ruffle fathers and stir things up to get people riled up and pissed off. That’s what gets them views/listens. No one should give a fuck about what they say. It’s pure noise. If you’re worried about them expressing outrage about something, you’ll be paralyzed.
 
donbosco said:
A Nate Oates hire would place me immediately in the position that some of my IU grad friends found themselves as slowly but steadily bobby knight began to show himself.
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This is one area where we wholeheartedly agree.

I don't necessarily have strong opinions on who our next coach is, but I very much do not want it to be Nate Oats. I wouldn't necessarily quit pulling for Carolina Basketball if he was, but I'd never enjoy it the same as I have for 40+ years and I would spend his entire tenure waiting for him to leave.
 
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