Hubert Davis Catch-all

[UNCatTech]

It’s record against highest seeded opponent that all 3 teams played (Miami didn’t play duke and clemson didn’t play UVA) i think it literally comes down to Cal or something.
Greg Barnes wrote about it in the last week

I read it's Stanford as the tie breaker if it's a 3 way tie.

Hopefully we beat dook, but a Clemson loss would be nice also.

 

[Icky Mettle]

Looking ahead a bit, we know Caleb is going pro and it’s safe to assume Veesaar is as well. So not including those two, of all the players on our current roster with eligibility left, who should be our top 3 priorities to keep. I’m going with:
1. Dixon
2. Stevenson
3. Luka

After those 3 I might prioritize High and Powell. I actually really like Powell. He doesn’t get a lot of minutes, but he seems to hustle and is a legit 3-point threat. High has shown improvement with his increased minutes, and would provide an experienced, serviceable backup big for next season.

 

[Heelsandeers]

Looking ahead a bit, we know Caleb is going pro and it’s safe to assume Veesaar is as well.

Is it safe to assume? UNC has late first round pick money

With a deep draft class this year and what looks to be a weak one next year

Not unreasonable to think Henri could return, make more $, and still improve draft stock

 

[uncjhodges]

Looking ahead a bit, we know Caleb is going pro and it’s safe to assume Veesaar is as well. So not including those two, of all the players on our current roster with eligibility left, who should be our top 3 priorities to keep. I’m going with:
1. Dixon
2. Stevenson
3. Luka

After those 3 I might prioritize High and Powell. I actually really like Powell. He doesn’t get a lot of minutes, but he seems to hustle and is a legit 3-point threat. High has shown improvement with his increased minutes, and would provide an experienced, serviceable backup big for next season.

Completely depends on who we get in the portal (and if some people are willing to come back for a discount)I would put a lot of effort into a combo/point upgrade and 5 man. Our returning roster has a lot of complementary pieces we can build around people, we just need 2-3 very high level replacements

PG: Portal/mingo/dixon
2g: Dixon/Luka
3: Powell/luka
4: Maxi/Stevenson
5: Portal/High

Need another high level off guard too

 

[Icky Mettle]

Is it safe to assume? UNC has late first round pick money

With a deep draft class this year and what looks to be a weak one next year

Not unreasonable to think Henri could return, make more $, and still improve draft stock

I think it’s safe to assume. Doesn’t mean he will go pro. Obviously if he’s considering coming back you prioritize him first and foremost. But my thought exercise was really about who we prioritize if he is going pro.

 

[Enigma94]

Is it safe to assume? UNC has late first round pick money

With a deep draft class this year and what looks to be a weak one next year

Not unreasonable to think Henri could return, make more $, and still improve draft stock

I agree with this. If I'm Tanner my number one priority is Veesaar and I'd throw a massive bag at him. Late first round is roughly $5 million guaranteed over two years. I'd go to him with $5 million to stay another year and pitch him on a weaker draft next year. Sure it delays the second contract, but getting all his guaranteed money upfront would be a pretty sweet deal and there's no guarantee he doesn't slip into the second round where nothing is guaranteed. It would be so much easier to have him in the fold to build around.

 

[superrific]

I'm not sure Veesaar is a first round pick. He's too soft. If he can get bullied in college, he will get even more bullied in the pros. He's not a strong rebounder. If he was a freshman that might be understandable. But as a junior, I don't know.

 

[Enigma94]

Of course where you are ranked in any particular season is relative to the competition that exists in that season. But even aside from the metrics, that was a better, more well-rounded team in terms of quality talent compared to this year. We had an All-American guard who was a major scoring and 3-point threat. We had a true point guard. We had two All-ACC bigs, one of whom was a legit 3-point threat. We had a solid, experienced wing who averaged double-digit points and was a solid 3-point threat.

This season, we have an elite front line when healthy, mainly inconsistent guards who are generally inconsistent 3-point threats, and no real point guard.

I think if you took the best 15 games that the 2024 team played and the best 15 games that this year’s team played, and compared them, you would think 2024 team looks a lot better.

I don't think we're that far apart. I said in my post that the 2024 team was better. I just think this year's team falls in the 12-20 range where teams like Nebraska, Tennessee, Texas Tech, Vandy, Louisville, UVA and Arkansas are versus the 25-30 range we've been stuck in with teams like St Louis, Kentucky, Georgia, Texas and Wisconsin. The 2024 team was top 8 and I feel like this team slots in around 15ish, but for various reasons the metrics have us between 25-30th.

 

[4thgenheel]

I'm not sure Veesaar is a first round pick. He's too soft. If he can get bullied in college, he will get even more bullied in the pros. He's not a strong rebounder. If he was a freshman that might be understandable. But as a junior, I don't know.

he might not be but you still probably have to offer a comparable "bag" to get him to stay in CH.

other colleges will be sniffing around, too.

 

[rodoheel]

Looking ahead a bit, we know Caleb is going pro and it’s safe to assume Veesaar is as well. So not including those two, of all the players on our current roster with eligibility left, who should be our top 3 priorities to keep. I’m going with:
1. Dixon
2. Stevenson
3. Luka

After those 3 I might prioritize High and Powell. I actually really like Powell. He doesn’t get a lot of minutes, but he seems to hustle and is a legit 3-point threat. High has shown improvement with his increased minutes, and would provide an experienced, serviceable backup big for next season.

I think those priorities sound about right.

 

[StoneColdHeel]

I hope they offer Veesaar a bunch and he stays. I think we have the guards figured out for next season. But going to need another big from the portal if Veesaar leaves, and I'd rather them keep him than have to try their luck with someone else.

 

[SnoopRob]

We're not comparing programs.

We're having a discussion about the job Davis has done in the wake of Roy Williams. If the motivation is to simply be better than Duke or on par with Duke, that's fine. But now you're looking at it through a tinted lense. There is no way to unsee the success Scheyer has had the last two seasons, and his success is simply not sustainable over the course of a career. Sure he will continue to have good years but the last two years have been otherworldly. It's not fair to Davis to hold him to that standard. It's not fair to Scheyer.

And the season isn't over. Davis is having a really good year.

The discussion is what is acceptable as the standard of performance at an elite CBB program.

HD has been a good coach at Carolina and is having a good year, but the standard at Carolina & dook is better than “good”.

My reservations about HD isn’t because dook has had 2 exceptional seasons, it’s because HD isn’t meeting the standard an elite program should meet.

Do you believe HD’s results over the last nearly 5 years (with the end of this season TBD) to be up to the reasonable expectations of an elite program?

 

[rodoheel]

Completely depends on who we get in the portal (and if some people are willing to come back for a discount)I would put a lot of effort into a combo/point upgrade and 5 man. Our returning roster has a lot of complementary pieces we can build around people, we just need 2-3 very high level replacements

PG: Portal/mingo/dixon
2g: Dixon/Luka
3: Powell/luka
4: Maxi/Stevenson
5: Portal/High

Need another high level off guard too

I don't see any way we are bringing in a portal PG (or at least not anything other than a depth PG) with Mingo and Dixon on the roster. Those guys can cover all the PG minutes and play next to each other some, too.

We need a big-time wing. Right up there with a big-time portal C, IMO. That's the biggest thing we have been missing for years and are missing on this current team. Ideally we get a big-time win and Luka/Powell (if they both are back) are covering the rest of the minutes at the 2 and backing up the wing at the 3.

Also I'd be really surprised if Adams starts over Stevenson.

 

[thebruinbleedstarheelblue]

What is the end goal for the program? You're 24-6 with an undefeated home record and a win over your blood rival. I think HD has earned some leeway, no? At what point is he not "coaching for his job" every year?

Not following this up with a stinker. this team has pulled out some great wins this season... but I think the March success is completely match up dependent.

It looks like next year it could be a major step back... but so did Caleb's injury. If he can keep the trajectory up and be good 2/3 seasons in a row, I think he'll be fine.

Ideally we should be contending every few years instead of being on the bubble.

 

[Heelsandeers]

I think it’s safe to assume. Doesn’t mean he will go pro. Obviously if he’s considering coming back you prioritize him first and foremost. But my thought exercise was really about who we prioritize if he is going pro.

I hear you. I just don't think we can assume any player who's not a sure lotto pick is leaving anymore. Granted, UNC is 0-2 now with Ingram/Drake leaving

As for your thought exercise, I agree with those top 3. Dixon of course. Luka for the right price/role. And now that Stevenson is here he should stay

I like Powell too and he will only improve. Zayden is showing he can be serviceable. It's a solid nucleus of role players

 

[4thgenheel]

The discussion is what is acceptable as the standard of performance at an elite CBB program.

HD has been a good coach at Carolina and is having a good year, but the standard at Carolina & dook is better than “good”.

My reservations about HD isn’t because dook has had 2 exceptional seasons, it’s because HD isn’t meeting the standard an elite program should meet.

Do you believe HD’s results over the last nearly 5 years (with the end of this season TBD) to be up to the reasonable expectations of an elite program?

good response. i don't understand the convoluted context presented by @dukeman92

 

[Icky Mettle]

I agree with this. If I'm Tanner my number one priority is Veesaar and I'd throw a massive bag at him. Late first round is roughly $5 million guaranteed over two years. I'd go to him with $5 million to stay another year and pitch him on a weaker draft next year. Sure it delays the second contract, but getting all his guaranteed money upfront would be a pretty sweet deal and there's no guarantee he doesn't slip into the second round where nothing is guaranteed. It would be so much easier to have him in the fold to build around.

Perhaps things are changing, but it seems that when players in positions similar to Veesaar think longterm (in consultation with their agents), going the pro route is preferred. And perhaps with Veesaar’s background he would be comfortable making a lot of money playing professionally in Europe.

Look at Harrison Ingram, for example. He was projected as a second round pick. While UNC may not have had as much NIL money to work with two years ago, I am sure they were willing to throw a lot of money at Ingram if he were willing to come back. I’m sure other college teams would have been willing to do the same. But he decided to go pro, despite being projected as a second rounder.

 

[StoneColdHeel]

The discussion is what is acceptable as the standard of performance at an elite CBB program.

HD has been a good coach at Carolina and is having a good year, but the standard at Carolina & dook is better than “good”.

My reservations about HD isn’t because dook has had 2 exceptional seasons, it’s because HD isn’t meeting the standard an elite program should meet.

Do you believe HD’s results over the last nearly 5 years (with the end of this season TBD) to be up to the reasonable expectations of an elite program?

I think it's been about 50/50. Two good seasons with a great run at the end of his first year, and the other that ended up with a loss in the Sweet 16 to a lower seed. The other two seasons were bad. This season has been good overall. Not great, but good. We'll have to see what happens in the tournament. There needs to be more consistency. Not sure how long they can go with alternating good and bad seasons. Also, are just good seasons good enough to stay?

 

[Icky Mettle]

I hear you. I just don't think we can assume any player who's not a sure lotto pick is leaving anymore. Granted, UNC is 0-2 now with Ingram/Drake leaving

As for your thought exercise, I agree with those top 3. Dixon of course. Luka for the right price/role. And now that Stevenson is here he should stay

I like Powell too and he will only improve. Zayden is showing he can be serviceable. It's a solid nucleus of role players

Yeah, with regard to that first paragraph, check out my response to Enigma.

 

[Bigs23]

I don't think anyone reasonable should be pounding the table to fire HD right now, unless things really collapse in the next couple weeks. But here are my main two points of response to what you say:

1. In terms of the circumstances - I'm not willing to give as big a pass for the upheaval of the modern era as you are. If this were a situation where no programs were able to sustain success due to the significant turnover and uncertainty across college sports, then I would be more sympathetic to your point. But other programs are managing to be successful year after year despite all of those same factors, and we should have the expectation that UNC can do it too. As I've said before, while this season has been good, the UNC program and fan base does (and should) have greater expectations than celebrating a year where we get a 4/5 seed as an unqualified success.

2. You mention some positive signs about how HD is coaching and running the program this year. I agree those are positive signs. But as I've said multiple times, one year doesn't make a trend. One year of good signs - albeit one where we are still probably a 4/5 seed, so not a typical great UNC season - is not sufficient to discount the past. Especially when the whole issue throughout HD's tenure has been sustaining year-to-year consistency.

The most recent data is usually the most valuable data.