—> ICE / General Immigration News / Salvadoran Prison

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lawtig02 said:
Yes! I think ALL administrations have an obligation to make sure ICE operates with appropriate oversight and that its budget is limited to its absolutely necessary functions, which do not require a budget larger than the military of all but three nations. I'd be fucking LIVID if a Democratic president attempted to create a domestic army like the GOP has done with ICE. That would make me oppose any Democratic candidates who were in the same ideological zip code as the president and congressmen who approved such a thing.

So what's your excuse? Why are you ok with fascism just because the fascists are on your team?
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You didn't oppose biden's border mess but you oppose the clean up of the mess? That seems to be the root of your problem. You don't want the illegal immigrants deported. Even though trump told you what he was going to do a year in advance. The budget increase is justified given the enormity of the issue and it appears they are limited to necessary functions. Your "domestic army" is hyperbole with no basis in accuracy other than your opinion. Never forget, if joe had done his job rather than bending the knee to the far left of the party, we wouldn't have to clean up the mess and ICE's budget would still be $8 billion.

You guys have so overused and improperly used the word "fascist" It's taken the place of "racist" in the left's words of choice. I am absolutely not ok with fascism and don't see any fascists on my team.
 
Callatoroy said:
And what was left out of the ABC article?
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That ABC article was about a single person and didn't cover the rest for that reason. I didn't get the sense they were intentionally leaving anything out.

BBC covered most of the same info as Fox news.

www.bbc.com

Minors among 200 suspected illegal immigrants detained at California marijuana farm

Clashes erupted outside Glass House farm on Thursday as protesters trying to stop the raid confronted federal agents.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

"It's not clear where the juveniles are from, but Customs and Border Protection boss Rodney Scott said the youngest was aged 14."

14 years old? Ah, that's nothing. Sarah Huckabee-Sanders would be a-okay with child labor for those juveniles.

 
lawtig02 said:
Yes! I think ALL administrations have an obligation to make sure ICE operates with appropriate oversight and that its budget is limited to its absolutely necessary functions, which do not require a budget larger than the military of all but three nations. I'd be fucking LIVID if a Democratic president attempted to create a domestic army like the GOP has done with ICE. That would make me oppose any Democratic candidates who were in the same ideological zip code as the president and congressmen who approved such a thing.

So what's your excuse? Why are you ok with fascism just because the fascists are on your team?
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"I understand your rational for voting for biden in 20. That was exactly the same rational I used in voting for trump in 24. The most undemocratic thing maybe in the last 50 years was the way the left chose its candidate. That wasn't trump destroying democracy. That was your party throwing democracy out the window to do "whatever it takes" to defeat trump. Would love to know your thoughts on how that was handled."

Any comments?
 
Callatoroy said:
You didn't oppose biden's border mess but you oppose the clean up of the mess? That seems to be the root of your problem. You don't want the illegal immigrants deported. Even though trump told you what he was going to do a year in advance. The budget increase is justified given the enormity of the issue and it appears they are limited to necessary functions. Your "domestic army" is hyperbole with no basis in accuracy other than your opinion. Never forget, if joe had done his job rather than bending the knee to the far left of the party, we wouldn't have to clean up the mess and ICE's budget would still be $8 billion.

You guys have so overused and improperly used the word "fascist" It's taken the place of "racist" in the left's words of choice. I am absolutely not ok with fascism and don't see any fascists on my team.
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I completely, 100%, supported the Biden/Lankford border bill that would have brought legal legitimacy to border control. I'm still pissed off Trump tanked it, throwing the ultra-conservative Senator Lankford under the bus, solely because Trump didn't want to give Biden a "win".

Are you?
 
Bobfripp said:
That ABC article was about a single person and didn't cover the rest for that reason. I didn't get the sense they were intentionally leaving anything out.

BBC covered all this too.

www.bbc.com

Minors among 200 suspected illegal immigrants detained at California marijuana farm

Clashes erupted outside Glass House farm on Thursday as protesters trying to stop the raid confronted federal agents.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

"It's not clear where the juveniles are from, but Customs and Border Protection boss Rodney Scott said the youngest was aged 14."

14 years old? Ah, that's nothing. Sarah Huckabee-Sanders would be a-okay with child labor for those juveniles.

Click to expand...
Unaccompanied minors working around criminals on a weed farm. Yea, no need at all to mention that.
 
Callatoroy said:
The most undemocratic thing maybe in the last 50 years was the way the left chose its candidate.
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Oh come on Calla, Biden was the presumptive nominee, and yes, we're all aware now that he wasn't up to the task and his staff/family obfuscated. It stinks, I'm angry about it, but the incumbent POTUS always gets the nod for the nomination. Biden waited too late to drop out, and we all have to deal with the aftermath.

But the most undemocratic thing in the last 50 years!!! It's not even close to Trump and his supporters staging a near insurrection on Jan 6th 2021 and not accepting the results of the 2020 Presidential election. That is treason.
 
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Callatoroy said:
"I understand your rational for voting for biden in 20. That was exactly the same rational I used in voting for trump in 24. The most undemocratic thing maybe in the last 50 years was the way the left chose its candidate. That wasn't trump destroying democracy. That was your party throwing democracy out the window to do "whatever it takes" to defeat trump. Would love to know your thoughts on how that was handled."

Any comments?
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I would have voted for literally any Dem candidate over the train wreck that is Trump, so I really don't care that much. I'm definitely pissed at Biden for running again. That was a major mistake on his part, and it's a large part of the reason the worst president in American history was somehow, inexplicably, elected for a second term, which has already surpassed his first term as the worst presidential term in American history. I don't see how the selection of Kamala impacts our democratic institutions, though. We still had a choice on November 6. One candidate was a flawed, but fundamentally decent, representative of America. The other was a narcissistic asshole who had already demonstrated, beyond any reasonable doubt, that he was completely unsuited to be the president of this great country.

Somehow, you managed to miss the memo.
 
lawtig02 said:
I completely, 100%, supported the Biden/Lankford border bill that would have brought legal legitimacy to border control. I'm still pissed off Trump tanked it, throwing the ultra-conservative Senator Lankford under the bus, solely because Trump didn't want to give Biden a "win".

Are you?
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If we are going to converse in good faith, it would be helpful not to play spin games. A bill isn't a good bill just because it was a bill. No matter who authored it. The bill didn't accomplish anything other than saying things are so bad now, maybe we can get it down to 5,000 per day. Apparently you were good with the border not being secured until 5,000 a day cross? Not me. I believe its possible to get it to almost zero. In any case, trump has shown that it can be accomplished and we don't need to wait on 5000 crossings before securing the border. So it seems as if trump was correct in getting it torpedoed. And yes, I absolutely believe trump didn't want to give biden a win because he knew he could do it quickly and we are all safer for it.
 
Callatoroy said:
Unaccompanied minors working around criminals on a weed farm. Yea, no need at all to mention that.
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Lol...tell me you have never been on any sort of farm ever. I worked on farms my whole life as a minor and I can assure you that almost always I would have been working around someone with a criminal record. That included at age 14, 15, 16, 17, etc...

Anyone who has done or currently does agricultural work of any kind works around folks with criminal records.
 
Callatoroy said:
If we are going to converse in good faith, it would be helpful not to play spin games. A bill isn't a good bill just because it was a bill. No matter who authored it. The bill didn't accomplish anything other than saying things are so bad now, maybe we can get it down to 5,000 per day. Apparently you were good with the border not being secured until 5,000 a day cross? Not me. I believe its possible to get it to almost zero. In any case, trump has shown that it can be accomplished and we don't need to wait on 5000 crossings before securing the border. So it seems as if trump was correct in getting it torpedoed. And yes, I absolutely believe trump didn't want to give biden a win because he knew he could do it quickly and we are all safer for it.
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Well sure. If we jettison the constitution, we can do just about anything. Amirite?

1752527370474.png
 
heelinhell said:
Thank the lord Trump is shutting down mom and pop restaurants. I mean do we really need locally owned restaurants when we have Chipotle ?

www.rawstory.com

Omaha restaurants close as DHS sparks panic for workers

Two Omaha restaurant locations have closed after their owner reported receiving a subpoena from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) seeking the immigration status of its employees.In a Facebook post on Sunday, Fernando's Omaha said it was cooperating with the DHS inquiry. However, the...
www.rawstory.com www.rawstory.com
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Nobody knows how to ruin a business better than Trump.
 
Callatoroy said:
If we are going to converse in good faith, it would be helpful not to play spin games. A bill isn't a good bill just because it was a bill. No matter who authored it. The bill didn't accomplish anything other than saying things are so bad now, maybe we can get it down to 5,000 per day. Apparently you were good with the border not being secured until 5,000 a day cross? Not me. I believe its possible to get it to almost zero. In any case, trump has shown that it can be accomplished and we don't need to wait on 5000 crossings before securing the border. So it seems as if trump was correct in getting it torpedoed. And yes, I absolutely believe trump didn't want to give biden a win because he knew he could do it quickly and we are all safer for it.
Click to expand...

Calla...given that most of the people here illegally want to work, and many of them are in fact working, why do you think Trump isn't also going after the businesses who hire them?

I think if you look real hard at that question, you'll begin to understand why a lot of us on the left are so quick to charge Trump and his followers of nativism, xenophobia, and outright racism. There are very easy things to do on the supply side of our labor market, and agenda item number one would be making e-Verify mandatory for all employers, or at least in agriculture, hospitality, meat processing, construction, and other places where migrants often find work. But that's not happening, and to my knowledge Pubs aren't even considering it. There is an obvious reason for that.

I remember a long time ago George W Bush was nattering on about illegal immigration, and then he went to a meeting of Ag leaders in San Diego, and then just stopped talking about it. If you had to pay those workers the California hourly minimum wage, we'd all be paying 3x as much for our produce.

I remember too Deportee, by Woody Guthrie, which shows us that this de-humanization of our immigrant workers has a long history in the US. It's very easy to get people riled up, fearful and angry about "caravans of brown skinned people" "invading" our country. Like shootin' fish in a barrel.
 
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lawtig02 said:
I would have voted for literally any Dem candidate over the train wreck that is Trump, so I really don't care that much. I'm definitely pissed at Biden for running again. That was a major mistake on his part, and it's a large part of the reason the worst president in American history was somehow, inexplicably, elected for a second term, which has already surpassed his first term as the worst presidential term in American history. I don't see how the selection of Kamala impacts our democratic institutions, though. We still had a choice on November 6. One candidate was a flawed, but fundamentally decent, representative of America. The other was a narcissistic asshole who had already demonstrated, beyond any reasonable doubt, that he was completely unsuited to be the president of this great country.

Somehow, you managed to miss the memo.
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You don't see how disenfranchising millions that never voted for her, (you do know she was very unpopular in the primary right? And that she dropped out due to lack of support) impacts our democratic institutions? Seriously? The people that didn't support her but didn't want to vote for trump didn't have a choice. Do you not understand that line of reasoning? Your party completely disenfranchised them when it was deemed prudent by a select handful, but they will scream to the heavens if the right tries to enact voter id laws. IMO that pretty much sums up the left. "We will tell you what is best for you"

A majority of voters disagreed with you on your claims of trump being the worst potus in history and unsuited to be potus. So I get that is your opinion, but not one shared by most voters.
 
dukeman92 said:
Trumpers only care about the border because they're racists.
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I think you're being facetious here, but even still, I don't really agree with that. I think it would be better to say that a lot of people on both sides of the aisle speak as if "racism" was a binary either/or thing, and not a scale. I think there are also a lot of people who don't understand that those sorts of things are to a large degree pre-conscious, and don't really involve the executive, conscious, rational brain at all.

I did a bunch of those Harvard Implicit Bias tests and found that the group I'm most disposed to view negatively were the disabled. Pretty sobering stuff. It's not a story I like to tell myself about myself, but there it is.
 
Bobfripp said:
Oh come on Calla, Biden was the presumptive nominee, and yes, we're all aware now that he wasn't up to the task and his staff/family sandbagged. It stinks, I'm angry about it, but the incumbent POTUS always gets the nod for the nomination. Biden waited too late to drop out, and we all have to deal with the aftermath.

But the most undemocratic thing in the last 50 years!!! It's not even close to Trump and his supporters staging a near insurrection on Jan 6th 2021 and not accepting the results of the 2020 Presidential election. That is treason.
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I don't accept the left's version of what took place in part because I have an eyewitness account and because the investigation was rigged. I do accept that trump was a part of it and could have diffused the situation but gave it lip service. It is a shame we will never know factually everyone's role. Not accepting the results of the election? He still hasn't, but then that isn't something trump invented is it? So I respectfully disagree with you in that telling millions of voters here is your candidate and you have no say is worse. Even if not, its still an attack on the democratic process which is really the point.
 
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