—> ICE / Immigration Catch-All

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To be clear: the process that is due is NOT a function of our resources. I shouldn't have to say this, but since the VP said otherwise . . .

The requirements of due process are laid out in the constitution. Among them: a right to a jury trial. It doesn't matter if our GDP is 3K per yea per capita or 300K per year. The constitution says everyone gets a jury trial. The constitution says that no person can be deprived of life or liberty without due process.
 
There's a misdirection that JD Vance and the rest of the admin and right wing news networks are using in bad faith, and individuals already inclined to agree with the admin seem to be running with it. And that misdirection is that this is about Abrego Garcia, the individual. Or even that it is about illegal immigrants. It's not - It's about the government and its power.

We The People should insist that our government, which controls, ya know [*gestures wildly at all the weapons, military, money, etc.*], follows the law before depriving any person of life, liberty, or property. The constitution unequivocally requires as much.

If Abrego Garcia is returned, is given due process, and is subsequently removed again following the law, well I don't have nearly as big a problem with that.

Lincoln said "As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master." If you wouldn't give up your due process and let the government do to you whatever it wishes (this administration or any other), then you should not tolerate when the government does it to someone else.

To JD Vance or anyone else who says due process is too hard or too expensive for some threshold number of people: Get bent.
 
TangledUpInBlue06 said:
There's a misdirection that JD Vance and the rest of the admin and right wing news networks are using in bad faith, and individuals already inclined to agree with the admin seem to be running with it. And that misdirection is that this is about Abrego Garcia, the individual. Or even that it is about illegal immigrants. It's not - It's about the government and its power.

We The People should insist that our government, which controls, ya know [*gestures wildly at all the weapons, military, money, etc.*], follows the law before depriving any person of life, liberty, or property. The constitution unequivocally requires as much.

If Abrego Garcia is returned, is given due process, and is subsequently removed again following the law, well I don't have nearly as big a problem with that.

Lincoln said "As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master." If you wouldn't give up your due process and let the government do to you whatever it wishes (this administration or any other), then you should not tolerate when the government does it to someone else.

To JD Vance or anyone else who says due process is too hard or too expensive for some threshold number of people: Get bent.
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Well said. One of the ways to describe the difference between liberal democracy and fascism is that liberal democracies are willing to allow the guilty to go free to prevent the innocent from losing their freedom, whereas fascist states are willing to take freedom from the innocent to ensure the guilty are punished. Trump, Vance, Bondi, Rubio, Miller, all of them are 100% aligning with fascism.
 
lawtig02 said:
Well said. One of the ways to describe the difference between liberal democracy and fascism is that liberal democracies are willing to allow the guilty to go free to prevent the innocent from losing their freedom, whereas fascist states are willing to take freedom from the innocent to ensure the guilty are punished. Trump, Vance, Bondi, Rubio, Miller, all of them are 100% aligning with fascism.
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Your overall point is correct. I think you're being too generous to fascism. What you've described as fascism is just Clarence Thomas. Fascism is willing to take freedom from the innocent to remain in power.
 
lawtig02 said:
Well said. One of the ways to describe the difference between liberal democracy and fascism is that liberal democracies are willing to allow the guilty to go free to prevent the innocent from losing their freedom, whereas fascist states are willing to take freedom from the innocent to ensure the guilty are punished. Trump, Vance, Bondi, Rubio, Miller, all of them are 100% aligning with fascism.
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I doubt it’s that important to fascist/authoritarian states for guilty criminals to be punished; it is important to punish opponents.
 
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www.nytimes.com

Trump Live Updates: Harvard Feud, El Salvador Deportations and Tariff News

www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

“… A federal judge in Washington threatened on Wednesday to open a high-stakes contempt investigation into whether the Trump administration violated an order he issued last month directing officials to stop planes of Venezuelan migrants from being sent to El Salvador.

In a 46-page ruling, the judge, James E. Boasberg, said that he would begin contempt proceedings against the administration unless the White House did what it has failed to do for more than a month: give scores of Venezuelan men deported to El Salvador under the expansive authority of a wartime law called the Alien Enemies Act a chance to challenge their removal.

“The court does not reach such conclusions lightly or hastily,” wrote Judge Boasberg, who sits as the chief judge in Federal District Court in Washington. “Indeed, it has given defendants ample opportunity to explain their actions. None of their responses has been satisfactory.”

Judge Boasberg’s threat of contempt proceedings came one day after another federal judge, in another case involving the deportation flights to El Salvador, announced that she was beginning her own inquiry into whether the White House had violated a separate ruling by the Supreme Court. …”
 
One thing of note: DC judges are now requiring the government to give them status reports as to the government's compliance with their orders. I don't remember which case right now, but there was one yesterday where the judge entered an order and then required the government to submit by COB today its plan for effectuating her order.

Basically, the DC judges are proceeding with a presumption of irregularity. They are basically taking the position that the administration is not going to comply with their rulings, and they are thus building a record for contempt.
 
Boasberg ain't fucking around either. He's going to appoint a prosecutor himself if the government won't do it.

Problem: Trump cannot pardon civil contempt but he can pardon criminal contempt. One wonders if Boasberg will go with civil in the end, if it gets there, though he's probably talking about criminal to scare some folks.
 
nycfan said:
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Lots of detail in the opinion about the bad faith actions of the government (and why they can be held in criminal contempt even though SCOTUS subsequently determined that the habeas hearing should have been in a different venue).
 
El Salvador has denied Sen. Van Hollen’s request to see/speak with Kilmar Garcia.

thehill.com

Van Hollen denied meeting, phone call with Abrego Garcia during El Salvador visit

The Salvadoran government on Wednesday rebuffed Sen. Chris Van Hollen’s (D-Md.) request to meet or speak with a wrongfully deported Maryland man, the senator said, accusing the Trump administration…
thehill.com

Odds have to be high that this dude is already dead.
 
EyeballKid said:
El Salvador has denied Sen. Van Hollen’s request to see/speak with Kilmar Garcia.

thehill.com

Van Hollen denied meeting, phone call with Abrego Garcia during El Salvador visit

The Salvadoran government on Wednesday rebuffed Sen. Chris Van Hollen’s (D-Md.) request to meet or speak with a wrongfully deported Maryland man, the senator said, accusing the Trump administration…
thehill.com

Odds have to be high that this dude is already dead.
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I'll take that bet. And I'll even give you 1:1 odds.
 
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