—> ICE / Immigration Catch-All

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CRHeel94 said:
I'm wondering if Buckle will play ball.
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The admin won't lift a finger to coerce him. Watch. We're paying El Salvador $6million for the "favor" of holding some prisoners. This admin's favorite weapon of coercion, one it's already used many times over on states and universities, is withholding funds until the target adopts a more agreeable and deferential position. Let's see if the admin withholds money from El Salvador until they return Abrego Garcia. I bet they won't. Meanwhile, the admin will happily withhold $1.5million in funding from Maine prisons over transgender issues.
 
TangledUpInBlue06 said:
The admin won't lift a finger to coerce him. Watch. We're paying El Salvador $6million for the "favor" of holding some prisoners. This admin's favorite weapon of coercion, one it's already used many times over on states and universities, is withholding funds until the target adopts a more agreeable and deferential position. Let's see if the admin withholds money from El Salvador until they return Abrego Garcia. I bet they won't. Meanwhile, the admin will happily withhold $1.5million in funding from Maine prisons over transgender issues.
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I feel like the USSC really should have considered that giving a President immunity means that he can functionally ignore any order they issue before, you know, giving him immunity.
 
StrangePackage said:
I feel like the USSC really should have considered that giving a President immunity means that he can functionally ignore any order they issue before, you know, giving him immunity.
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While I agree with you entirely, it's also true that the president has had the ability to ignore court orders for a long time. I don't think immunity changed that calculus.

But yeah, a lot of the other stuff directly follows. Gee, why is Trump sitting at Mar-A-Lago like it's an 18th century palace with a throne, purportedly ruling the country by issuing proclamations that he sends out into the world without the slightest regard for their legality (or plausibility)? Who might have made him think that he's a king?
 
Trump DOJ vs. the Judiciary... will their battles be legendary ?

www.rawstory.com

Trump DOJ says it won't comply with judge's order in high-profile case: report

The United States Department of Justice said on Friday that it will not comply with an order from Judge Paula Xinis to reveal information on the whereabouts and status of deported immigrant Kilmar Abrego Garcia.As reported by Politico's Kyle Cheney on BlueSky, the DOJ information Judge Xinis...
www.rawstory.com www.rawstory.com


rule of law ? we don't need no stinkin' rule of law...

www.rawstory.com

'This is insane': Legal expert aghast at Trump DOJ's defiance of judge

U.S. District Court Judge Paula Xinis held a hearing on Friday in which the Justice Department was told to deliver information about a man they admitted they had wrongfully deported.During the hearing, Judge Xinis demanded that the DOJ offer information on the whereabouts of Kilmar Abrego...
www.rawstory.com www.rawstory.com
 
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nycfan said:


SCOTUS seems to be adopting the more circumscribed approach of the most conservative opinion from the DC 4th Circuit. The notion that “facilitating” the return of Abrego Garcia is more clear than “effectuating” his return is … puzzling and lacking any direction as to the distinction or what constitutes sufficient effort to facilitate his return. It creates the need for further hearings before the facilitation can be ordered. Then what? Back up to DC Circuit and SCOTUS to sort out the meaning of facilitation, right?
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Yes, I imagine we are due for some sort of Kabuki Theater production from the Trump Admin and El Salvador, where the Trump admin pretends to try to get the guy back and says El Salvador says "We, the sovereign government of El Salvador, believe it is an intrusion on our national sovereignty for you to demand the return of this person; no take backs" and the admin then throws up its hands and says "we tried." Meanwhile behind the scenes they are furiously texting El Salvadorian officials on Signal saying "we're gonna ask for this guy back but don't give him back, here's what you need to say." And then it will work its way back up to the Supreme Court to decide how convincing the administration is.
 
rodoheel said:
Yes, I imagine we are due for some sort of Kabuki Theater production from the Trump Admin and El Salvador, where the Trump admin pretends to try to get the guy back and says El Salvador says "We, the sovereign government of El Salvador, believe it is an intrusion on our national sovereignty for you to demand the return of this person; no take backs" and the admin then throws up its hands and says "we tried." Meanwhile behind the scenes they are furiously texting El Salvadorian officials on Signal saying "we're gonna ask for this guy back but don't give him back, here's what you need to say." And then it will work its way back up to the Supreme Court to decide how convincing the administration is.
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I don't see any upside in this for Trump. Yes, it tangentially concerns immigration, which is theoretically his strong suit, but it also highlights two of Trump's weaknesses: incompetence and arrogance.

Keeping this issue in the news won't help his cratering approval numbers.
 
Calheel said:
I don't see any upside in this for Trump. Yes, it tangentially concerns immigration, which is theoretically his strong suit, but it also highlights two of Trump's weaknesses: incompetence and arrogance.

Keeping this issue in the news won't help his cratering approval numbers.
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I hope you're right and they just bring him back (which obviously El Salvador would do if they asked). But Trump doesn't think about news cycle stuff rationally like that (and he doesn't see incompetence and arrogance as weaknesses he has anyway). This is a pure power grab situation, and the chance of getting a ruling that in any way allows them to disappear people to El Salvador and be able to claim they can't get them back is hugely beneficial to what he and his Project 2025 goons want to be able to do.
 
rodoheel said:
I hope you're right and they just bring him back (which obviously El Salvador would do if they asked). But Trump doesn't think about news cycle stuff rationally like that (and he doesn't see incompetence and arrogance as weaknesses he has anyway). This is a pure power grab situation, and the chance of getting a ruling that in any way allows them to disappear people to El Salvador and be able to claim they can't get them back is hugely beneficial to what he and his Project 2025 goons want to be able to do.
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But the Supreme Court said that they couldn't disappear people.

So you're suggesting here, it seems, that Trump will disregard the "due process" issue in reliance on the fact that currently the only means of contesting the deportation comes via habeus, which is an after-the-fact thing, and once they have been deported to El Salvador it will be too late as a practical matter?

Might happen. Hopefully not. I tend to agree with Calheel a little bit, here. With the economy falling apart, nobody outside the hard-core base is going to GAF about deporting this guy. They are going to want the president to focus on the economy, and on doing something to help.

These specific facts also make Trump look weak. I'm quite surprised, actually, that Trump has let the lawyers go with the "we are powerless to get him back" given that Trump recoils at any suggestion that his power is bounded. Maybe Trump told them not to make that argument, and that's why the lawyer last week conceded everything (and was then suspended) -- what else was he supposed to do? Then when the concession was seized upon by the appeals court, Trump demanded the guy be suspended. But anyway, digression. It just seems unlikely that the guy who is going to remake the global economy is out there shouting about how the president of El Salvador is beyond his influence.
 
This case is highly significant and important and should be of concern to everyone who chooses not to blindly fall in line with Administration policy and decisions, and particularly vocal critics of these policies. This is because the Trump lawyers are arguing to SCOTUS that their practice "deporting" without due process can and should be applied to include US citizens, as well. So you see, it's not just about a legal immigrant being snatched off the street as whisked off a prison in El Salvador. It can happen, according to Trump's lawyers, to anyone they deem a threat, citizens included.
 
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