—> ICE / Immigration / Federal agents shoot two people in Portland

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gtyellowjacket said:
I think they were going to try to detain her or arrest her for blocking the street or obstructing justice or whatever. The guy walking out to the car was yelling to her to shut the car off. Then the other guy shot her when she started pulling away.

And I am also a us citizen, a white guy in a left leaning city and I'm going to comply. Every single time. I doubt that woman thought that running away was going to get her killed but things can turn bad really fast with these under trained yahoo's or even professional police.

Sorting all that out later is what the courts are for. Getting rid of the guys running the show is what the ballot box is for. Nonviolent protests can also be effective, which is what most of these folks are doing.
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Serious question that I honestly don't know the answer to: does ICE have legal authority to detain/arrest people for "obstructing justice" or interfering with their operations or whatever? Like, I'm pretty sure that if I obstruct a postal worker in trying to deliver mail, the postal worker can't pull out a gun an detain or arrest me for that; other law enforcement officials would have to be called in to do that. So, how does that apply to ICE? Do they have full authority to enforce all federal law, including non-immigration offenses, whether by arrest, detention, or otherwise? Or only a specifically enumerated set of laws? And if the letter, does the scope of that authority include these sorts of detentions/arrests for things that they would claim are related to the exercise of their duties?
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I think they were going to try to detain her or arrest her for blocking the street or obstructing justice or whatever. The guy walking out to the car was yelling to her to shut the car off. Then the other guy shot her when she started pulling away.

And I am also a us citizen, a white guy in a left leaning city and I'm going to comply. Every single time. I doubt that woman thought that running away was going to get her killed but things can turn bad really fast with these under trained yahoo's or even professional police.

Sorting all that out later is what the courts are for. Getting rid of the guys running the show is what the ballot box is for. Nonviolent protests can also be effective, which is what most of these folks are doing.
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Right, I dont believe her intent was to run anyone over, but ICE agents have every right, maybe moreso, to be afraid of violent protesters then the other way around.

I m fully aware of how heavy the partisan shit slinging is on here. Its beyond hatred also. I would hope everyone could agree she made a very stupid decision that cost her life. im a young guy, even I know you simply have to be smarter than that. I don't expect reason on here and I damn sure expect a lot of hateful replies. Oh well no sweat off my back either way, homies
 
Jetson said:
The car makes contact with the guy, there's no question about that.

But if you watch all of the videos/angles, starting under the assumption she's trying to run him over, that assumption falls apart pretty quickly, since she could have easily done so. All she had to do was keep her wheels straight, or even turn to the left slightly, and it would have been a direct hit. But she did the complete opposite of that.

That won't stop intellectually dishonest people like JD Vance and the rest of this administration, or completely stupid people (like maga posters here apparently) from believing that she was trying to run him over (or that she actually ran him over, if you're brain dead like Trump).
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Shot #1 was from the corner - side and front, and not in the direct path of the turning vehicle. She was pulling into the lane.

Shots 2 and 3 where through the open driver's side window. If anything the ICE agent attempted to lean against the corner of the vehicle. There were not injured as would be seen walking to and from the car.

Clearly shot #1 came in from an angle. Towards her chest. Shots 2 and 3 were to the head at point blank range from the side.

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takingAdookie said:
Right, I dont believe her intent was to run anyone over, but ICE agents have every right, maybe moreso, to be afraid of violent protesters then the other way around.

I m fully aware of how heavy the partisan shit slinging is on here. Its beyond hatred also. I would hope everyone could agree she made a very stupid decision that cost her life. im a young guy, even I know you simply have to be smarter than that. I don't expect reason on here and I damn sure expect a lot of hateful replies. Oh well no sweat off my back either way, homies
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ICE agents are armed better and given much wider jurisdictional leeway than any domestic law-enforcement unit that is not SWAT. What on earth makes you think that they should be more afraid of protesters than protesters should be of ICE? Why in the world should a platoon of heavily armed men in masks feel more afraid for their lives than a terrified 37-year-old soccer mom driving a Honda pilot?

I certainly hope that you don’t get any of the “hateful replies” that you are clearly hoping for. Such limp, flaccid, impotent both- sidesing as yours is not worthy of any vitriol, but rather pity. Homie.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I think they were going to try to detain her or arrest her for blocking the street or obstructing justice or whatever. The guy walking out to the car was yelling to her to shut the car off. Then the other guy shot her when she started pulling away.

And I am also a us citizen, a white guy in a left leaning city and I'm going to comply. Every single time. I doubt that woman thought that running away was going to get her killed but things can turn bad really fast with these under trained yahoo's or even professional police.

Sorting all that out later is what the courts are for. Getting rid of the guys running the show is what the ballot box is for. Nonviolent protests can also be effective, which is what most of these folks are doing.
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Sorting it out is what the courts are for? I might have agreed with you a year ago, but now? The courts have repeatedly ordered DHS to release detainees, not transport them to undisclosed facilities, not deport them, bring them back, etc. and DHS has failed to comply in a timely manner. They’ve held US citizens for days and weeks without charging them with a crime, without letting their families know where they are and even without letting them consult with an attorney. Detainees have died from lack of medical care. Compliance carries no promise of justice.
 
takingAdookie said:
Right, I dont believe her intent was to run anyone over, but ICE agents have every right, maybe moreso, to be afraid of violent protesters then the other way around.

I m fully aware of how heavy the partisan shit slinging is on here. Its beyond hatred also. I would hope everyone could agree she made a very stupid decision that cost her life. im a young guy, even I know you simply have to be smarter than that. I don't expect reason on here and I damn sure expect a lot of hateful replies. Oh well no sweat off my back either way, homies
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Just seems incredible to me that this lady made what could only be described as a very minor error of judgement, and you hold her to account for that, but you don’t hold (seemingly, I can’t swear I’ve read all your posts on this thread), the guy who killed (possibly murdered) her for no good reason to any account at all.
 
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takingAdookie said:
ICE agents have every right, maybe moreso, to be afraid of violent protesters then the other way around.

I m fully aware of how heavy the partisan shit slinging is on here. Its beyond hatred also. I would hope everyone could agree she made a very stupid decision that cost her life. im a young guy, even I know you simply have to be smarter than that. I don't expect reason on here and I damn sure expect a lot of hateful replies. Oh well no sweat off my back either way, homies
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1. The first statement is absurd when you consider that the ICE agents are heavily armed and armored, and also if you want to tally up the injuries/deaths inflicted by ICE on protestors as opposed to the other way around it would be a very lopsided scoresheet. What is the worst injury an ICE agent has suffered as a result of a protestor attack since this whole Trump surge started?

2. The decision the driver made did not cost her her life. The ICE agent who fired three shots into her head at close range took her life. Her actions played a role in getting to that point, wise or not, btu acting like she is the only one who acted with agency in the situation is foolish.
 
This is way more rhetorical than actually inquisitive, but how in the world did we societally become so casually cruel? How did the social contract completely evaporate so easily? I know that some may believe that right wingers and conservatives have always been like what we are currently seeing in the aftermath of this tragedy in Minneapolis, but I don’t believe that to be actually true. I believe this is a new phenomenon. Ten years ago, 15 years ago, 20 years ago, 25 years ago, etc. most of the country, conservatives and liberals alike, would have been unified in their disgust and revulsion for 1. federal agents performing such a ghastly public summary execution of a soccer Mom in a minivan in broad daylight in the middle of the street, 2. with the president and the vice president of the United States gleefully mocking and celebrating it.
 
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