—> ICE / Immigration / Nation grapples with ICE killings

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ZenMode said:
Well.... there's nothing preventing citizens from intervening now, but they all chose to stand around and watch George Floyd die.
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Correct. And they will all have to live with that stain for the rest of their lives. They should have en masse jumped on Chauvin and held him down until more sane officers prevailed.
 
wmheel1287 said:
They should have en masse jumped on Chauvin and held him down until more sane officers prevailed.
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You have, what, 4+ armed officers who are trying to restrain a suspect, until an ambulance arrives, now being attacked by a group of citizens.

How do you think that would have played out?
 
nycfan said:
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This seems like a pretty good division of labor to me...

The Minnesota Department of Corrections transfers the violent criminals that Minnesota has arrested to DHS which frees up DHS/ICE agents to focus on rounding up the non-violent immigrants and American citizens who are or happen to look like Hispanics.

That is state/Fed law enforcement cooperation at its finest !

WINNING !!!
 
ZenMode said:
You have, what, 4+ armed officers who are trying to restrain a suspect, until an ambulance arrives, now being attacked by a group of citizens.

How do you think that would have played out?
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If citizens trying to intervene to stop 4+ armed cops from murdering a single, unarmed individual who is handcuffed and face down will likely result in the cops murdering even more unarmed individuals, then perhaps it is the action of the police that needs more of our focus and not the actions of the citizens.

The answer, IMO, is that it should be illegal to interfere with police action. And if police action shocks the conscience, citizens should intervene, law be damned. And a DA should decline to prosecute and a jury should nullify. In fact, this is akin to jury nullification in my mind. The defense can't argue for jury nullification because it encourages jurors to ignore the law. But jury nullification is an inherent power of juries. The idea is that the jury should be so distressed by the situation that they come to the conclusion to ignore the law on their own. Same here. If citizens are so distressed by police action that they come to the conclusion to ignore the law, that's the right outcome. The law is a proxy for justice, but there are times that justice and legality are not concentric circles on the Venn diagram.
 
nycfan said:


🎁 —> Minnesota Proved MAGA Wrong
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“… The federal surge into Minneapolis reflects a series of mistaken MAGA assumptions. The first is the belief that diverse communities aren’t possible: “Social bonds form among people who have something in common,” Vance said in a speech last July. “If you stop importing millions of foreigners into the country, you allow social cohesion to form naturally.” Vance’s remarks are the antithesis to the neighborism of the Twin Cities, whose people do not share the narcissism of being capable of loving only those who are exactly like them.

A second MAGA assumption is that the left is insincere in its values, and that principles of inclusion and unity are superficial forms of virtue signaling.

… The MAGA faith in liberal weakness has been paired with the conviction that real men—Trump’s men—are conversely strong. Consider Miller’s bizarre meltdown while addressing Memphis police in October. “The gangbangers that you deal with—they think that they’re ruthless? They have no idea how ruthless we are. They think they’re tough? They have no idea how tough we are,” Miller said. “They think they’re hard-core? We are so much more hard-core than they are.” Around this time, Miller moved his family onto a military base—for safety reasons.

… The secret fear of the morally depraved is that virtue is actually common, and that they’re the ones who are alone.

In Minnesota, all of the ideological cornerstones of MAGA have been proved false at once. Minnesotans, not the armed thugs of ICE and the Border Patrol, are brave.

Minnesotans have shown that their community is socially cohesive—because of its diversity and not in spite of it.

Minnesotans have found and loved one another in a world atomized by social media, where empty men have tried to fill their lonely soul with lies about their own inherent superiority.

Minnesotans have preserved everything worthwhile about “Western civilization,” while armed brutes try to tear it down by force.…”
 


“… Maybe that explains why Alex Pretti really was a threat. Because he was brandishing a weapon. A handheld, aluminum, 1080p, 60fps weapon of mass illumination. Because there is nothing more dangerous to a regime predicated on lies than witnesses who capture the truth“
 
nycfan said:
“… The federal surge into Minneapolis reflects a series of mistaken MAGA assumptions. The first is the belief that diverse communities aren’t possible: “Social bonds form among people who have something in common,” Vance said in a speech last July. “If you stop importing millions of foreigners into the country, you allow social cohesion to form naturally.” Vance’s remarks are the antithesis to the neighborism of the Twin Cities, whose people do not share the narcissism of being capable of loving only those who are exactly like them.

A second MAGA assumption is that the left is insincere in its values, and that principles of inclusion and unity are superficial forms of virtue signaling.

… The MAGA faith in liberal weakness has been paired with the conviction that real men—Trump’s men—are conversely strong. Consider Miller’s bizarre meltdown while addressing Memphis police in October. “The gangbangers that you deal with—they think that they’re ruthless? They have no idea how ruthless we are. They think they’re tough? They have no idea how tough we are,” Miller said. “They think they’re hard-core? We are so much more hard-core than they are.” Around this time, Miller moved his family onto a military base—for safety reasons.

… The secret fear of the morally depraved is that virtue is actually common, and that they’re the ones who are alone.

In Minnesota, all of the ideological cornerstones of MAGA have been proved false at once. Minnesotans, not the armed thugs of ICE and the Border Patrol, are brave.

Minnesotans have shown that their community is socially cohesive—because of its diversity and not in spite of it.

Minnesotans have found and loved one another in a world atomized by social media, where empty men have tried to fill their lonely soul with lies about their own inherent superiority.

Minnesotans have preserved everything worthwhile about “Western civilization,” while armed brutes try to tear it down by force.…”
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How many Trump people are living on military bases? Miller, Noem, Hegseth, anyone else? It’s telling that there are any at all. They know their actions are so unpopular, potentially criminal that they fear the people they serve. Or maybe it’s just the free housing grift in play.
 
Senior ICE agents' opinion of the ICE agents signed up by Trump's DHS...

www.rawstory.com

Leading ICE agent spills on new recruits: 'Idiots'

Several Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents revealed Monday that the Trump administration’s rush to add 10,000 new officers has produced a wave of undertrained and “sketchy” recruits, most of whom were “idiots,” a senior ICE agent told independent journalist Ken Klippenstein.“The brand...
www.rawstory.com www.rawstory.com
 
TangledUpInBlue06 said:
If citizens trying to intervene to stop 4+ armed cops from murdering a single, unarmed individual who is handcuffed and face down will likely result in the cops murdering even more unarmed individuals, then perhaps it is the action of the police that needs more of our focus and not the actions of the citizens.

The answer, IMO, is that it should be illegal to interfere with police action. And if police action shocks the conscience, citizens should intervene, law be damned. And a DA should decline to prosecute and a jury should nullify. In fact, this is akin to jury nullification in my mind. The defense can't argue for jury nullification because it encourages jurors to ignore the law. But jury nullification is an inherent power of juries. The idea is that the jury should be so distressed by the situation that they come to the conclusion to ignore the law on their own. Same here. If citizens are so distressed by police action that they come to the conclusion to ignore the law, that's the right outcome. The law is a proxy for justice, but there are times that justice and legality are not concentric circles on the Venn diagram.
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Ok, but how to you think that situation is going to play out when you have multiple armed police officers, who are directly engaged with a suspect, and those officers now have people coming at them, physically assaulting them and potentially armed?
 
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