India Pakistan looming war

Language and actions definitely increasingly belligerent and tense. Prior skirmishes have tended to be contained in or at the borders of Kashmir, not within India and Pakistan proper.

Lots of international parties urging some version of restraint but right now there is an escalatory spiral.
 

India-Pakistan Conflict Escalates Sharply With Attacks on Military Bases​

Pakistan said it fired missiles at military sites in India, accusing India of targeting at least three of its air bases. India said it was responding to a wave of Pakistani attacks.


“… Between the claims and counterclaims, it was increasingly clear that the night involved some of the heaviest military engagement from both sides since the armed confrontation began on Wednesday.

Both countries say that they want to de-escalate, but the confrontation has only intensified since India conducted airstrikes in Pakistan on Wednesday. India had accused Pakistan of harboring terrorist groups that carried out a deadly attack on tourists last month in India-controlled Kashmir. Pakistan has denied involvement.

Since then, the crisis has spiraled into the most expansive confrontation between the two nations in half a century, with fierce fighting along sections of their border and drone attacks and other strikes hitting deeper within each country. Each response has come with waves of claims, counterclaims and disinformation. …”
 
The level of disinformation in this conflict has been particularly shocking — a lot of really bad to decent AI of leaders appearing to say things they did not (mostly to fan flames and assign blame), the usual types but more pervasive use of unrelated genuine footage from other conflicts, video game footage and AI created footage to make one side seem more effective and the other more pathetic or evil, etc.

With the most populous nation in the world and the fifth or so most populous nation in the world (with the loud backing of the second most populous country), the sheer amount of the disinformation shouldn’t be surprising, but the shitty quality and mostly completely unnuanced nature of the disinfo has been wild. Don’t doubt the depth of mutual hatred and the cost of years of nationalist political rhetoric on both sides — that rhetoric is boomeranging on the leaders of each side now, making it harder to de-escalate without seeming like traitorous cowards to populaces fed on nationalistic fervor and resentment used to patch over widespread poverty, graft and inequity.

People convinced to do without clean water and air and safe, sanitary living conditions so the military can be built and thrive expect that military might to show its luster now, but people are also fairly delusional about the quality of their armed forces and apparently quite willing to try to will their military status to something more impressive with self-aggrandizing AI claims the purveyors and consumers must know rests between exaggerated to ludicrous.

I’m not suggesting this is a particular issue of this region, just striking to watch unfold. We see versions of this on a smaller scale all the time domestically with every mass shooting and political skirmish.

People are so willing to rush in to prop up their own virtual reality rather than confront actual reality now that it is making it virtually impossible to address real problems and conflicts in good faith. All that matters is how immersive and attractive your VR is and how feckless to evil you can portray the opposition to be. It hardly seems to matter anymore how ludicrous a new claim is so long as it satisfies the VR universe building of your side.
 
nycfan said:
The level of disinformation in this conflict has been particularly shocking — a lot of really bad to decent AI of leaders appearing to say things they did not (mostly to fan flames and assign blame), the usual types but more pervasive use of unrelated genuine footage from other conflicts, video game footage and AI created footage to make one side seem more effective and the other more pathetic or evil, etc.

With the most populous nation in the world and the fifth or so most populous nation in the world (with the loud backing of the second most populous country), the sheer amount of the disinformation shouldn’t be surprising, but the shitty quality and mostly completely unnuanced nature of the disinfo has been wild. Don’t doubt the depth of mutual hatred and the cost of years of nationalist political rhetoric on both sides — that rhetoric is boomeranging on the leaders of each side now, making it harder to de-escalate without seeming like traitorous cowards to populaces fed on nationalistic fervor and resentment used to patch over widespread poverty, graft and inequity.

People convinced to do without clean water and air and safe, sanitary living conditions so the military can be built and thrive expect that military might to show its luster now, but people are also fairly delusional about the quality of their armed forces and apparently quite willing to try to will their military status to something more impressive with self-aggrandizing AI claims the purveyors and consumers must know rests between exaggerated to ludicrous.

I’m not suggesting this is a particular issue of this region, just striking to watch unfold. We see versions of this on a smaller scale all the time domestically with every mass shooting and political skirmish.

People are so willing to rush in to prop up their own virtual reality rather than confront actual reality now that it is making it virtually impossible to address real problems and conflicts in good faith. All that matters is how immersive and attractive your VR is and how feckless to evil you can portray the opposition to be. It hardly seems to matter anymore how ludicrous a new claim is so long as it satisfies the VR universe building of your side.
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Well said. And to put it another way, welcome to Panem.
 

Trump Announces Truce Between India and Pakistan​

Officials in both countries acknowledged a halt after several days of their most expansive fighting in decades.


“…
Indian and Pakistani officials confirmed the cease-fire in social media posts, though only Pakistan publicly acknowledged the American role.

“We thank President Trump for his leadership and proactive role for peace in the region,” Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif of Pakistan said on social media. “Pakistan appreciates the United States for facilitating this outcome, which we have accepted in the interest of regional peace and stability.”

Secretary of State Marco Rubio said in a statement that he and Vice President JD Vance had engaged with senior officials from both countries, including their prime ministers, over 48 hours. In addition to the cease-fire, India and Pakistan also agreed to “start talks on a broad set of issues at a neutral site,” Mr. Rubio said.

However, India’s foreign ministry contradicted Mr. Rubio, saying the cease-fire was worked out directly between India and Pakistan, and that there had been no decision to hold talks on any other issue at any location. …”

——
At least hopefully there is a cooling down period now.
 
REMINDER — ALL REPORTS IN THIS MESS NEED CONFIRMED. MULTIPLE REPORTS OF EXPLOSIONS BUT TBD ON DETAILS.

 

Violations reported after India and Pakistan agree to ceasefire​



“… But within hours, violations were reported from the main cities of Indian Kashmir, the territory that had borne the brunt of four days of fighting.

Blasts were heard in Srinagar and Jammu and projectiles and flashes were seen in the night sky over Jammu, similar to the events of the previous evening, according to authorities, residents and Reuters witnesses. …”

Blaming Spider-Man GIF
 
I seriously doubt Trump, JD and little Marco facilitated fuck all.
Note: India specifically denied the U.S. had any involvement, only Pakistan issued a (probably AI generated) response “thanking” Trump. I call B.S. on that one.
Now, less than 4 hours later, more reported hostilities. If Team Trump had a hand in anything at all, it certainly wasn’t binding, and nothing to brag about.
ETA: Vance even said 48 hours ago that it was “none of our business” and intimated the US would stay out of it completely. So we KNOW JD didn’t do squat
 
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And the biggest loser of all this..... is Taiwan.
China validated its systems in real combat against western equivalents.
Taiwan may thus end up in a state of not only quantitative inferiority, but a qualitative one as well. Of course there's the ocean.
 
Centerpiece said:
I seriously doubt Trump, JD and little Marco facilitated fuck all.
Note: India specifically denied the U.S. had any involvement, only Pakistan issued a (probably AI generated) response “thanking” Trump. I call B.S. on that one.
Now, less than 4 hours later, more reported hostilities. If Team Trump had a hand in anything at all, it certainly wasn’t binding, and nothing to brag about.
ETA: Vance even said 48 hours ago that it was “none of our business” and intimated the US would stay out of it completely. So we KNOW JD didn’t do squat
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^This. I also seriously doubt the honesty of any public announcement that comes from this administration. I have little doubt that they're going to take full credit for anything good that happens anywhere in the world, no matter if we had a direct or leading hand in creating or negotiating it. They lie about everything else, so why would they be telling the truth about this?
 
StrangePackage said:
I'll have you recall that prior to the Troubles that Irish whiskey ruled the world. The British strangled it off for the Empire after 1916, the US went to Prohibition in 1919, and the result was the rise of much inferior Scotch - with access to the Empire and smuggled into the US through Canada and British holdings in the Caribbean.

The ranks of whiskey are very clearly Irish > Bourbon > Rye > Tennessee > Scotch. I speak from years of research.
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You forgot Japanese
 
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