Iran Catch-All | IRAN WAR / US F-15 downed in Iran

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Bobfripp said:
The US has opened the Straits of Hormuz? I did not know that.
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The only wins Trump gets are ones his supporters give him for announcing his attentions.
Trump says he will cut waste and fraud! Trump will lower prices! Trump will cut rates! Trump will lower the deficit! Trump will not start wars! Trump will win the wars he starts! Trump will fix immigration! Trump will make our elections safe! Trump will give us good healthcare! Trump will give us bonus checks!

None of these things have actually transpired, but his supporters sure do give him credit for it.
 
ZenMode said:
Opinions always vary widely when it comes to using the military and spending money. Most people wanted the US to financially support Ukraine... until they didn't. I think most people would like to see Iran, and it's ability to fund/promote terrorism, decimated. I think most people would like to know that Iran doesn't have a nuke and is unable to develop a nuke in the future... preferably ever. It's also true that Iran is at its weakest point in decades and now is a good time to make a military move.

So, in theory (and in a vacuum), I support what we're doing. The waste of taxpayer money is always a factor, but the deficit/debt ship sailed long ago. Neither party cares about fiscal responsibility, so it really comes down to personal preference on how much is too much because there is no right or wrong, which is why I find myself being for the Iran operation one minute and then against it the next minute.

However, no matter what happens, I actually beat @nycfan at posting a significant story and that can never be taken away from me.

Rob Gronkowski Football GIF by Tampa Bay Buccaneers
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So you are saying the gain is:
- ability to fund/promote terrorism, decimated.
- Iran doesn't have a nuke and is unable to develop a nuke in the future... preferably ever.

Are those things truly going to be achieved and were they not achievable via a means that was less deadly, less expensive?
 
Making the case for preemptive war prior to launching the war has many advantages. For one, it’s more difficult to convince people that a nation posed a significant threat after they’ve seen that country’s military capabilities destroyed in 36 hours.
 
ChileG said:
The only wins Trump gets are ones his supporters give him for announcing his attentions.
Trump says he will cut waste and fraud! Trump will lower prices! Trump will cut rates! Trump will lower the deficit! Trump will not start wars! Trump will win the wars he starts! Trump will fix immigration! Trump will make our elections safe! Trump will give us good healthcare! Trump will give us bonus checks!

None of these things have actually transpired, but his supporters sure do give him credit for it.
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Promises kept … from actually happening.
 
sringwal said:
www.bbc.com

Trump says Nato making 'foolish mistake' over Iran

The US president expresses frustration that US allies are not helping secure the Strait of Hormuz.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
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It does not need to be said here but I'll say it anyway - this is all karma for Dear Leader spending all of his first term and all of his second term thus far doing little but publicly trashing all of our allies at nearly every turn. He's tried to steal Greenland from Denmark, bragged that he was going to take over Canada and make it our "51st State", repeatedly talked shit about the leaders of Spain, France, Germany, and even the UK, belittled the contributions and sacrifices of our WW2 allies in winning that conflict, and on and on.

And now he is mad like the petulant child he is that all of these countries have no interest in helping him get out of a mess that he created. Throughout his life there have always been family flunkies who would get him out of trouble when his stupidity and impulsivity got him there. And now our allies - which he no doubt sees as America's flunkies - aren't playing that game. And the whole world is watching his meltdown in real time. And the longer this war goes and he can't find a way to get out of it and as things get worse this meltdown is only going to get worse and worse. And since he's the freaking POTUS this isn't just some personal humiliation and meltdown, so we're all in the danger zone here.
 
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ZenMode said:

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2 days ago the Iranian Security Chief Larijani said that there was a 9/11 type of attack in the US being planned by the Epstein class with an intent to blame Iran.
Yesterday Larijani is killed in a targeted strike from Israel.
Today the US Director of the National Counterterrorism Center resigns.
Also today, internet conspiracy theorists are having a field day with the above 3 data points.
 
Guardian
5m ago11.32 GMT
The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said the Iranian intelligence minister, Esmaeil Khatib, who was apparently assassinated in an Israeli strike this morning, oversaw “surveillance, espionage, and the execution of covert operations worldwide, particularly against the state of Israel and Iranian citizens”.

He played a significant role in the brutal crackdown on the recent anti-government protests in Iran, the IDF added in a statement posted on X.

Khatib is one of “dozens of senior commanders” in Iran “who were eliminated throughout the operation”, the IDF said
 
gregh1 said:
So you are saying the gain is:
- ability to fund/promote terrorism, decimated.
- Iran doesn't have a nuke and is unable to develop a nuke in the future... preferably ever.

Are those things truly going to be achieved and were they not achievable via a means that was less deadly, less expensive?
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Trump hasn't been clear about what the goals are. It seems like half a dozen things have been mentioned.

If you're talking about the reasons for our actions in Iran, there are several. Stopping their nuclear program, weakening the largest purveyor of terrorism in the world and retribution for massive civil rights violations to name a few.
 
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ZenMode said:
Trump hasn't been clear about what the goals are. It seems like half a dozen things have been mentioned.

If you're talking about the reasons for our actions in Iran, there are several. Stopping their nuclear program, weakening the largest, weakening the largest purveyor of terrorism in the world and retribution for massive civil rights violations to name a few.
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You have to be lying because even you can't be this mistaken. There was no present nuclear threat. Our actions have guaranteed that they will now go full tilt in pursuing one. The largest purveyor of Islamic terrorism are the Wahabists originating in Saudi Arabia. You just might want to check the citizenship on the 9/11 personnel. A fair as civil rights violations, you're being a complete poseur and fool. Civil rights are literally up to the individual nation and not America's business. It's not like you give a shit since you freely support Americans' civil rights being overrun every day.

So out of those half dozen, what have we actually done, how much has it cost in human suffering and money and what did we get that was worth it?
 
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ZenMode said:
Trump hasn't been clear about what the goals are. It seems like half a dozen things have been mentioned.

If you're talking about the reasons for our actions in Iran, there are several. Stopping their nuclear program, weakening the largest, weakening the largest purveyor of terrorism in the world and retribution for massive civil rights violations to name a few.
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For our own sake, I hope retribution for massive civil rights violations doesn't become a recognized basis to bomb the shit out of another country.
 
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