Iran Catch-All | IRAN WAR - US to BLOCKADE Strait

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gtyellowjacket said:
If Russia had something, I think meaningful sanctions on Russia would have been removed instead of escalated and weapon sales and donations would have been zero instead of billions per year, weapons that have killed lots of Russians and kept this war going.

Think of it this way. If Russia did have something that compromised Trump, would they say you need to reduce aid to Ukraine and we can handle more sanctions or would they say you need to end aid to Ukraine, eliminate all sanctions and then you need to start aiding us? Because the former is what has happened under Trump. This stuff is tin foil hat territory.
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Whatever gets you to sleep at night.
 
ZenMode said:
In order to truly understand the nature of fighting between settlers and Gazans, I would have to dig into, as much as it is even possible, the details of every skirmish. I view the settler/Gazan fighting as a Hatfield/Mccoy situation or fighting between rival gangs....or drunk neighbors. Lots of he said/she said and events that can't be verified, so the authorities are unable to take action.

What I don't do, as many here seem to do, is make assumptions about the Israeli government allowing the violence. That goes against a long track record of Israel's approach to Gazans and the fact that Israel is not a terrorist country so, yes, I do, when I simply can't realistically know the details, give Israel the benefit of the doubt. Before you roll your eyes at that premise, I'll remind you that Israel was accused of genocide, on a daily basis, for killing 75,000 civilians over a period of 2.5 years, while Iran killed 30-40 thousand civilians in less than a week.

In cases when violence has escalated, which sometimes results in death, the settlers involved have often been charged, convicted and imprisoned.

There is no option for peace between Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and Israel. Those combined terrorist groups have made their intent to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth very clear. There's no reasoning with them.

Meanwhile, Israel had (until recently) a 13% Muslim population and extended work visas to tens of thousands of Gazans.
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we are talking about the settlers... what is the scenario when they have a claim to the land.

It's so funny how you just come up with the stupidest scenarios when things don't work your way. So one they're not neighbors they're settlers and two if you have an argument with your neighbor you get to take their house? And you saw the conviction rates and there are 1000s of stories of the Israel Israeli military providing the force/support on the ground in addition to the legal support.

Just say you don't like this to Palestinians or will support anything that Israelis do.

Having a clear bias is better than just being dumb.
 
thebruinbleedstarheelblue said:
we are talking about the settlers... what is the scenario when they have a claim to the land.

It's so funny how you just come up with the stupidest scenarios when things don't work your way. So one they're not neighbors they're settlers and two if you have an argument with your neighbor you get to take their house? And you saw the conviction rates and there are 1000s of stories of the Israel Israeli military providing the force/support on the ground in addition to the legal support.

Just say you don't like this to Palestinians or will support anything that Israelis do.

Having a clear bias is better than just being dumb.
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nycfan said:
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So the US is going to block China and even some of our allies from going through that Strait.

LOL.

I don't know why some of you wanted to put an idiot in charge.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I completely agree with your point. Trump isn't really thoughtful with his sanctions but that wasn't really my points.

Point 1. Trump would act very differently if Russia was blackmailing him such as not selling Ukraine weapons and not increasing sanctuons on Russia.

Point 2. SmilingJack is pretty dim.
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To be clear, I hope no one is suggesting that Trump has ever done anything to help Ukraine? When he issued sanctions in October that took affect in November, he did that to settle a score with India's Modi. Most everything else he's given to Ukraine was because Ukraine had to negotiate holding back on attacking Russia in some way or actually coming to the negotiating table. Such things as that.

Putin knows its near impossible to blackmail Trump. He has no shame. Easier to play to Trump's weakness which is corrupt money. Every meeting with Wtkoff always includes how to make money by delivering Ukraine on a silver platter.

Pretty sure Putin has his days where he wishes he could give Trump the finger. Trump being the idiot that he is, is almost more trouble then he's worth to Putin.
 
lawtig02 said:
What happens in this scenario, which strikes me as fairly plausible?

  • Tanker full of oil bound for China attempts to leave an Iranian port.
  • US navy interdicts the tanker and either seizes it or otherwise prevents it from proceeding.
  • China sends its own naval assets to escort the next tanker carrying oil bound from China.
  • US navy attempts to interdict the tanker escorted by the Chinese navy.
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Or, point 5) Trump TACOs out and backs down and lets the Chinese pretty much do whatever they want in the Persian Gulf. That's the most likely answer.
 
BlueSmoke said:
To be clear, I hope no one is suggesting that Trump has ever done anything to help Ukraine? When he issued sanctions in October that took affect in November, he did that to settle a score with India's Modi. Most everything else he's given to Ukraine was because Ukraine had to negotiate holding back on attacking Russia in some way or actually coming to the negotiating table. Such things as that.

Putin knows its near impossible to blackmail Trump. He has no shame. Easier to play to Trump's weakness which is corrupt money. Every meeting with Wtkoff always includes how to make money by delivering Ukraine on a silver platter.

Pretty sure Putin has his days where he wishes he could give Trump the finger. Trump being the idiot that he is, is almost more trouble then he's worth to Putin.
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I don't think that's accurate. The sanctions were in conjunction with the Europeans. The timing was identical and it stemmed from the Europeans having the capacity to buy energy from other sources. I don't think the Europeans had beef with Modi other than Modi buying Russian oil and selling it on, often to Europe.

Trump is also still giving aid, although substantially less than under Biden, and still selling Ukraine weapons. That doesn't help Putin in any way.

I think Trump doesn't really care that much about the ukrainians and doesn't think America has a whole lot of interests over there. He might make a deal to get some support from some congressmen who have military contractors in their district or throw a bone to Europe and if that helps Ukraine, so be it.
 
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thebruinbleedstarheelblue said:
we are talking about the settlers... what is the scenario when they have a claim to the land.

It's so funny how you just come up with the stupidest scenarios when things don't work your way. So one they're not neighbors they're settlers and two if you have an argument with your neighbor you get to take their house? And you saw the conviction rates and there are 1000s of stories of the Israel Israeli military providing the force/support on the ground in addition to the legal support.

Just say you don't like this to Palestinians or will support anything that Israelis do.

Having a clear bias is better than just being dumb.
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The claim that they are settlers makes assumptions about how the land was acquired. Yes, there are land disputes, but it's likely not as nefarious, on Israel's part, as you believe it is.

www.bbc.com

Israel's borders explained in maps

The conflict between Israel and Palestinians has roots which precede the formation of the country itself. Here's how the shape of the Jewish state has changed.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
 
ZenMode said:
The claim that they are settlers makes assumptions about how the land was acquired. Yes, there are land disputes, but it's likely not as nefarious, on Israel's part, as you believe it is.

www.bbc.com

Israel's borders explained in maps

The conflict between Israel and Palestinians has roots which precede the formation of the country itself. Here's how the shape of the Jewish state has changed.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
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And again you aren't following the plot. As often happens, you posted a link that is mostly irrelevant to the issue being discussed. We aren't talking about official borders, nor are we talking about the 1970s. We are talking about post 2010 settlement patterns that will make future borders impossible to establish.
 
superrific said:
And again you aren't following the plot. As often happens, you posted a link that is mostly irrelevant to the issue being discussed.
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A lot of aspects of this are being discussed, so I doubt my link is irrelevant.
superrific said:
We aren't talking about official borders, nor are we talking about the 1970s. We are talking about post 2010 settlement patterns that will make future borders impossible to establish.
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That seems unlikely given that Israel removed over 20 settlements, and physically dug up their deceased, in 2005 to disengage from Gaza.
 
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ZenMode said:
A lot of aspects of this are being discussed, so I doubt my link is irrelevant.

That seems unlikely given that Israel removed over 20 settlements, and physically dug up their deceased, in 2005 to disengage from Gaza.
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ZenMode said:
A lot of aspects of this are being discussed, so I doubt my link is irrelevant.

That seems unlikely given that Israel removed over 20 settlements, and physically dug up their deceased, in 2005 to disengage from Gaza.
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So, you believe that the settler activity stopped in 2005? 20 out of how many?

How many settlers remain and how many Palestinians displaced?

Where did you go to get this information? is this all the information that you found or were you looking for specific talking points?

Is this an attempt to focus in talking points or is this what your "research" came up with?


en.wikipedia.org

Israeli settlement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
thebruinbleedstarheelblue said:
So, you believe that the settler activity stopped in 2005? 20 out of how many?

How many settlers remain and how many Palestinians displaced?

Where did you go to get this information? is this all the information that you found or were you looking for specific talking points?

Is this an attempt to focus in talking points or is this what your "research" came up with?


en.wikipedia.org

Israeli settlement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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Settlers were killing Americans in 2025, 2026.

www.theguardian.com

Senators demand investigation after ninth American killed by Israeli settlers or soldiers in West Bank

Lawmakers cite ‘consistent pattern’ in which Americans are being killed ‘without justice or accountability’
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Hell, Iran hasn't done this to American citizens recently.
 
thebruinbleedstarheelblue said:
So, you believe that the settler activity stopped in 2005? 20 out of how many?

How many settlers remain and how many Palestinians displaced?

Where did you go to get this information? is this all the information that you found or were you looking for specific talking points?

Is this an attempt to focus in talking points or is this what your "research" came up with?


en.wikipedia.org

Israeli settlement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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My point was that Israel has already proven that they are willing to pull back on settlements to encourage peace.
 
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