Iran Catch-All | IRAN WAR

[Callatoroy]

What’s funny is the dire predictions on this board are very close to today’s reality (we actually fell short in predicting how bad things would get) and MAGAs’ predictions of peace and prosperity were 100 percent wrong.
But we are the ones who are void or common sense and rational thought.

Get back to me when our democracy fails. Nothing you predicted is close to reality.

 

[4thgenheel]

Get back to me when our democracy fails. Nothing you predicted is close to reality.

Democratic Backsliding Reaches Western Democracies, with U.S. Decline “Unprecedented” – V-Dem

Press Release for the V-Dem Institute Democracy Report 2026: "Unraveling The Democratic Era?"

www.v-dem.net

Democracy in the USA deteriorating at unprecedented scale and speed​

The U.S. democracy is currently in a much faster deterioration process than any other democracy in modern times. Within only one year, the USA’s score on the V-Dem Liberal Democracy index has declined by 24 percent, while its world rank dropped from 20th to 51st place out of 179 nations.

 

[superrific]

The current regime will never stop their quest for nukes. So its all intertwined into their desire for nukes and destruction of israel and the west.

Why are you like this? What makes you cling to nonsense fairy tales in the face of actual, real decimation?

Suppose Iran gets a nuke. What do you think they are going to do with it to "destroy Israel and the West"? Let's hear your insightful analysis of Iran's use-nukes-to-destroy-the-west plan. Getting a nuke is like getting to halftime. Using the nuke to accomplish any goals is incredibly difficult.

 

[CarolinaFever]

Get back to me when our democracy fails. Nothing you predicted is close to reality.

Yeah, we shouldn't worry at all until our democracy is completely gone.

You're an idiot.

 

[lawtig02]

The current regime will never stop their quest for nukes. So its all intertwined into their desire for nukes and destruction of israel and the west. They literally are happy to tell anyone that. I don't know what we are trying to do. I know what I perceive we are doing at this exact moment and what we have to do. I can tell you where I think he errored. And I can tell you what I perceived we were initially doing.

1. Right now we are trying to put unyielding pressure on iran to open up the strait quickly. I don't think bombing alone will do it. It's leaders don't care about the gen pop. I think trump thinks knocking out electrical and desalination plants will force the gen pop to rebell and put further pressure on the regime. I think that is going to cause humanitarian issues and negative public pushback and won't work. Hard to revolt when you have no equipment or air support.

2. The left latches on to one thing and then refuses to budge. To me it was never about any one thing. It has always been about destroying iran's nuclear program and defanging their military / economy to mitigate their proxies to create stability in the region. Israel forced the timing. IMO the timing has never been better given the support that the ME showed to israel and the US. The messaging has been a disaster, the strategic implementation has been flawed, and coalition building after the fact has been flawed. while trump may be right in principle about nato, his mouth has dug himself a huge hole, and expectations by the general public he can't meet have been created by his ego and mouth.

3. Can't undo any of that now. Can't leave without the strait being opened and out of iran's control and extortion capability. Allowing iran to control the strait is the 2nd worse thing that could happen until new methods of transportation can be developed.

4. As long as the uranium is there it will always be about their nuclear program and as long as their economy is "good enough" they will always pump resources into their proxies.

5. We aren't in a great position now. We weren't in a great position before. This is the culmination of presidents from 1979 until now kicking the iran can down the road. iran's attack on israel, the enriched uranium, interrupted shipping lanes off yeman, the civil unrest in the country and the regime crackdown, the chance that the entire regime was in one place, israel deciding that was their watershed moment, all came to a head.

See, this is why I get confused. You seem to be acknowledging here what we're doing is not working and is highly unlikely to achieve any of our goals. But in other posts, you're going after people who are making the exact same point.

Let's leave aside for a moment whether Trump is the worst political leader, and one of the worst humans, in American history (which is my view) or whether he's a terrible communicator and a rotten person who implements generally good policy (which I think is your view). When it comes to THIS policy -- the war we and Israel are waging on Iran -- it looks like we mostly agree. I agree it would be great if we could permanently end Iran's ability to get a nuclear weapon. I agree it would be great if we could somehow manipulate an overthrow of the fundamentalist regime in favor of a more democratic resistance movement. But we appear to agree the latter will not happen given the way we're fighting this war. And with respect to the former, I cannot conceive how we could accomplish that without putting thousands of soldiers on the ground to secure the areas where the uranium is buried, dig it out and remove it, and then leave troops in place to ensure Iran doesn't start right back up as soon as we're gone.

This gets to my earlier post. Now is the time for sane, traditional conservatives to finally say, ENOUGH. Not find ways to come up with some defense of Trump. Not deflect to how bad the Dems are, or how senile Biden was. Now is the time to say, "This man is acting and speaking in ways that are far, far beneath the most base expectations we have for the American president and commander in chief, and he needs to be removed."

It's not like you'd be turning power over to the Dems. The next in line is giving Victor Orban a hand job as we speak.

 

[dukeman92]

 

[CarolinaFever]

Good. Maybe this will be what gets Trump out of office.

 

[rodoheel]

1. Right now we are trying to put unyielding pressure on iran to open up the strait quickly. I don't think bombing alone will do it. It's leaders don't care about the gen pop. I think trump thinks knocking out electrical and desalination plants will force the gen pop to rebell and put further pressure on the regime. I think that is going to cause humanitarian issues and negative public pushback and won't work. Hard to revolt when you have no equipment or air support.

The Strait was open before we started this war. Glad that one of the aims of our $1 billion-per-day war is to restore the situation that existed before we started the war.

2. The left latches on to one thing and then refuses to budge. To me it was never about any one thing. It has always been about destroying iran's nuclear program and defanging their military / economy to mitigate their proxies to create stability in the region.

We destroyed their nuclear program last year. Another supposed war aim that was already accomplished. And if the goal is to destroy their military capabilities, why are we bombing bridges and power plants? Hit their military targets then get out.

3. Can't undo any of that now. Can't leave without the strait being opened and out of iran's control and extortion capability. Allowing iran to control the strait is the 2nd worse thing that could happen until new methods of transportation can be developed.

So once again, the best case scenario is that we spend tens of billions of dollars to restore a status quo that already existed before the war?

4. As long as the uranium is there it will always be about their nuclear program and as long as their economy is "good enough" they will always pump resources into their proxies.

The uranium is buried underground. Per Trump we are watching via satellite to see if they attempt to recover it, and will bomb them if they do. So why is all this other stuff necessary?

 

[mynameisbond]

Why are you like this? What makes you cling to nonsense fairy tales in the face of actual, real decimation?

Suppose Iran gets a nuke. What do you think they are going to do with it to "destroy Israel and the West"? Let's hear your insightful analysis of Iran's use-nukes-to-destroy-the-west plan. Getting a nuke is like getting to halftime. Using the nuke to accomplish any goals is incredibly difficult.

Supposing fish had wheels.

 

[Callatoroy]

lawtig02 said:
One more point on this, and I genuinely hope you'll engage. I'm as mad as anyone that Biden's handlers and Dem leadership hid and/or downplayed his decline in 2023 and 2024. But when Biden walked out on that debate stage and the Dem voting base saw him with their own eyes, the response was immediate and overwhelming. Yes, a small percentage of Dems continued to defend him, but it was clear from 30 minutes into the debate that Biden was not a viable presidential candidate and the voters would demand a change. That pressure only increased over the next few days.

Why is that not happening with Trump? Nothing about his decline and his descent into insanity is hidden. He's out there speaking almost every day. We all see it. There's no possible way to defend or justify it. Why do Republicans not have the courage and sense of decency to do what Dems did after the debate? Why are conservatives like you not speaking out strongly against behavior that FAR surpasses the worst things any president, of either party, has ever done before?

As unreliable as she is, MTG is at least showing she has the balls to speak out about what she and every other American are seeing with their own eyes, every single day. Why aren't Republican leaders doing the same? Why aren't you?

What Trump is doing and saying right now is intolerable. A person who does and says such things should not be able to continue to serve as the president of this great country. Will you have the courage to agree with that?

The voters saw it but it was denied for two years leading up to that debate, and only then did the dem leadership do anything about it. If the public hadn't reacted negatively the dem leadership would have been cool with the autopen. So it isn't some defining moment of moral clarity by the left. It was an attempt to survive.



I don't see a decline in his mental state. He still takes questions from reporters and leads a very active schedule. He's not having to be hidden from everyone and put to bed at 9:00. He hasn't had to have questions scripted for him. He doesn't have trouble stringing two sentences together. His rambling is as bad as ever. And people are pushing back on his comments. He is also a "war time president" right now. Do you expect relevant g'ment officials to call him out publicly in the days leading up to his deadline.

His rhetoric has gotten out of hand. His comments over the last couple of days are worse. How would you like me to show disdain for his comments? How should I speak out? Announce it on this board? I condemn trump's comments about bombing iran back to the stone age and wiping out an entire population. His comments on Easter morning were reprehensible. I have yet to see anything written that supports those comments. What more can I do? I don't disagree with his decison to act on iran. I disagree with the way in which it has been done and the messaging coming out about it. I can be critical of trump and still not disagree with everything he does. That's the biggest problem with the echo chamber this board is. There is no desire to ever go beyond trump hatred to the actual issue being dealt with.

 

[lawtig02]

lawtig02 said:
One more point on this, and I genuinely hope you'll engage. I'm as mad as anyone that Biden's handlers and Dem leadership hid and/or downplayed his decline in 2023 and 2024. But when Biden walked out on that debate stage and the Dem voting base saw him with their own eyes, the response was immediate and overwhelming. Yes, a small percentage of Dems continued to defend him, but it was clear from 30 minutes into the debate that Biden was not a viable presidential candidate and the voters would demand a change. That pressure only increased over the next few days.

Why is that not happening with Trump? Nothing about his decline and his descent into insanity is hidden. He's out there speaking almost every day. We all see it. There's no possible way to defend or justify it. Why do Republicans not have the courage and sense of decency to do what Dems did after the debate? Why are conservatives like you not speaking out strongly against behavior that FAR surpasses the worst things any president, of either party, has ever done before?

As unreliable as she is, MTG is at least showing she has the balls to speak out about what she and every other American are seeing with their own eyes, every single day. Why aren't Republican leaders doing the same? Why aren't you?

What Trump is doing and saying right now is intolerable. A person who does and says such things should not be able to continue to serve as the president of this great country. Will you have the courage to agree with that?

The voters saw it but it was denied for two years leading up to that debate, and only then did the dem leadership do anything about it. If the public hadn't reacted negatively the dem leadership would have been cool with the autopen. So it isn't some defining moment of moral clarity by the left. It was an attempt to survive.



I don't see a decline in his mental state. He still takes questions from reporters and leads a very active schedule. He's not having to be hidden from everyone and put to bed at 9:00. He hasn't had to have questions scripted for him. He doesn't have trouble stringing two sentences together. His rambling is as bad as ever. And people are pushing back on his comments. He is also a "war time president" right now. Do you expect relevant g'ment officials to call him out publicly in the days leading up to his deadline.

His rhetoric has gotten out of hand. His comments over the last couple of days are worse. How would you like me to show disdain for his comments? How should I speak out? Announce it on this board? I condemn trump's comments about bombing iran back to the stone age and wiping out an entire population. His comments on Easter morning were reprehensible. I have yet to see anything written that supports those comments. What more can I do? I don't disagree with his decison to act on iran. I disagree with the way in which it has been done and the messaging coming out about it. I can be critical of trump and still not disagree with everything he does. That's the biggest problem with the echo chamber this board is. There is no desire to ever go beyond trump hatred to the actual issue being dealt with.

That doesn't answer the question. Do you think Donald Trump, as of April 7, 2026, is suited to be president of the United States and commander in chief of the most powerful military in the history of the world? If not, the only moral thing to do is call for his removal from office.

 

[UNCBAdookJD]

lawtig02 said:
One more point on this, and I genuinely hope you'll engage. I'm as mad as anyone that Biden's handlers and Dem leadership hid and/or downplayed his decline in 2023 and 2024. But when Biden walked out on that debate stage and the Dem voting base saw him with their own eyes, the response was immediate and overwhelming. Yes, a small percentage of Dems continued to defend him, but it was clear from 30 minutes into the debate that Biden was not a viable presidential candidate and the voters would demand a change. That pressure only increased over the next few days.

Why is that not happening with Trump? Nothing about his decline and his descent into insanity is hidden. He's out there speaking almost every day. We all see it. There's no possible way to defend or justify it. Why do Republicans not have the courage and sense of decency to do what Dems did after the debate? Why are conservatives like you not speaking out strongly against behavior that FAR surpasses the worst things any president, of either party, has ever done before?

As unreliable as she is, MTG is at least showing she has the balls to speak out about what she and every other American are seeing with their own eyes, every single day. Why aren't Republican leaders doing the same? Why aren't you?

What Trump is doing and saying right now is intolerable. A person who does and says such things should not be able to continue to serve as the president of this great country. Will you have the courage to agree with that?

The voters saw it but it was denied for two years leading up to that debate, and only then did the dem leadership do anything about it. If the public hadn't reacted negatively the dem leadership would have been cool with the autopen. So it isn't some defining moment of moral clarity by the left. It was an attempt to survive.



I don't see a decline in his mental state. He still takes questions from reporters and leads a very active schedule. He's not having to be hidden from everyone and put to bed at 9:00. He hasn't had to have questions scripted for him. He doesn't have trouble stringing two sentences together. His rambling is as bad as ever. And people are pushing back on his comments. He is also a "war time president" right now. Do you expect relevant g'ment officials to call him out publicly in the days leading up to his deadline.

His rhetoric has gotten out of hand. His comments over the last couple of days are worse. How would you like me to show disdain for his comments? How should I speak out? Announce it on this board? I condemn trump's comments about bombing iran back to the stone age and wiping out an entire population. His comments on Easter morning were reprehensible. I have yet to see anything written that supports those comments. What more can I do? I don't disagree with his decison to act on iran. I disagree with the way in which it has been done and the messaging coming out about it. I can be critical of trump and still not disagree with everything he does. That's the biggest problem with the echo chamber this board is. There is no desire to ever go beyond trump hatred to the actual issue being dealt with.

Um, you’re just ignoring the fact that more than once there have been rumors that he died because he makes zero public appearances for several days at a time. Of course they’re hiding him from public. He’s still a raging narcissist so he only allows himself to be hidden for so long, but Susie Wiles and co. are definitely trying to hide him as much as possible.

 

[Callatoroy]

The Strait was open before we started this war. Glad that one of the aims of our $1 billion-per-day war is to restore the situation that existed before we started the war.

We destroyed their nuclear program last year. Another supposed war aim that was already accomplished. And if the goal is to destroy their military capabilities, why are we bombing bridges and power plants? Hit their military targets then get out.

So once again, the best case scenario is that we spend tens of billions of dollars to restore a status quo that already existed before the war?

The uranium is buried underground. Per Trump we are watching via satellite to see if they attempt to recover it, and will bomb them if they do. So why is all this other stuff necessary?

1. That comment is lacking in any relevence in terms of dealing with the iran problem. it was also open when they attacked israel.
2. We burried their uranium. Doesn't mean they can't dig it up when we leave. We have hit most all of their military targets if what you read is real. That alone won't open the strait. bombing bridges and power plants to increase pressure on regime to open the strait.
3. Either we underestimated their ability to close the strait, didn't believe they would for whatever reasons, thought just the bombing of military targets would cause them to bend the knee, or all of those, we failed to address that problem until after the fact and are now tasked with having to do that or bring in enough outside help to get it opened without extortion tolls being imposed.

 

[lawtig02]

1. That comment is lacking in any relevence in terms of dealing with the iran problem. it was also open when they attacked israel.
2. We burried their uranium. Doesn't mean they can't dig it up when we leave. We have hit most all of their military targets if what you read is real. That alone won't open the strait. bombing bridges and power plants to increase pressure on regime to open the strait.
3. Either we underestimated their ability to close the strait, didn't believe they would for whatever reasons, thought just the bombing of military targets would cause them to bend the knee, or all of those, we failed to address that problem until after the fact and are now tasked with having to do that or bring in enough outside help to get it opened without extortion tolls being imposed.

Bingo. What exactly do you think we're planning to do to solve that problem?

 

[Callatoroy]

Um, you’re just ignoring the fact that more than once there have been rumors that he died because he makes zero public appearances for several days at a time. Of course they’re hiding him from public. He’s still a raging narcissist so he only allows himself to be hidden for so long, but Susie Wiles and co. are definitely trying to hide him as much as possible.

WTF? rumors that he died? where were those rumors coming from?

 

[Callatoroy]

Bingo. What exactly do you think we're planning to do to solve that problem?

1. leave it and monitor the activity around and continue to go back and bomb it if they try to dig it up
2. send in SF and try to capture it

Don't know if there are any other options. Maybe demand israel's SF go get it.

 

[1moretimeagain]

WTF? rumors that he died? where were those rumors coming from?

Just social media rumors. The man makes himself so omnipresent in our lives that any time he’s away from a camera for more than 12 hours, it seems like something must be going on.

 

[Callatoroy]

That doesn't answer the question. Do you think Donald Trump, as of April 7, 2026, is suited to be president of the United States and commander in chief of the most powerful military in the history of the world? If not, the only moral thing to do is call for his removal from office.

You can't make that kind of a determination from what he tweets. This board isn't exactly objective on his sanity. Would I be sad if he was stepping down for health reasons? Probably not.

 

[lawtig02]

1. leave it and monitor the activity around and continue to go back and bomb it if they try to dig it up
2. send in SF and try to capture it

Don't know if there are any other options. Maybe demand israel's SF go get it.

Ok, I think that's a good spot to end the discussion. I agree (1) is a valid option that did not require us to go to war with Iran. I do not agree (2) is a valid option, as it cannot be done without exposing thousands of American soldiers to immense harm, including from radiation, and even if we somehow pulled it off, we could not stop Iran from starting over unless we keep troops on site indefinitely. The other, and vastly more preferential, option is a negotiated monitoring and verification regime, which we had, which could have been extended, but which Trump is uniquely unsuited to put in place again.

 

[Callatoroy]

The Strait was open before we started this war. Glad that one of the aims of our $1 billion-per-day war is to restore the situation that existed before we started the war.

We destroyed their nuclear program last year. Another supposed war aim that was already accomplished. And if the goal is to destroy their military capabilities, why are we bombing bridges and power plants? Hit their military targets then get out.

So once again, the best case scenario is that we spend tens of billions of dollars to restore a status quo that already existed before the war?

The uranium is buried underground. Per Trump we are watching via satellite to see if they attempt to recover it, and will bomb them if they do. So why is all this other stuff necessary?

Do you feel like we can leave and let iran control the strait?