Iran Catch-All | IRAN WAR

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nycfan said:
I would personally consider it immoral to say this and not follow-up to protect the people you are encouraging to put their lives on the line, but that’s just my personal view.

My emotional inclination is end this here and now but how do we actually do that and what are the risks of a collapse of Iran? The limits of power are real and make for some terrible alternatives.
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I think you're right but I'm conflicted too. I would also consider it immoral not to back up that statement with some sort of support, but at the same time I don't want any part of another decades long Middle East intervention in support of a civil war.

Not just a question for you but anyone. Have we ever successfully intervened to support an uprising? We didn't after tiananmen square and there was no regime change. We didn't after the Berlin Wall fell and there was substantial regime change. We didn't really do too much during the Arab spring in Tunisia and Egypt but did provide a fair amount of military support in Libya. Libya is a disaster and Tunisia went okay. Egypt probably was going down the wrong road but eventually the Egyptian military stepped in with our tacit support and did okay.

I would like to know some historical examples good and bad so we know which path is likely to lead to success.
 
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nycfan said:
I would personally consider it immoral to say this and not follow-up to protect the people you are encouraging to put their lives on the line, but that’s just my personal view.

My emotional inclination is end this here and now but how do we actually do that and what are the risks of a collapse of Iran? The limits of power are real and make for some terrible alternatives.
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Agreed. The United States has to act, and it needs to be ASAP. Otherwise, we are putting Iranian protesters in the line of fire with the false promise of support.
 
nycfan said:


it takes you away series 11 GIF by Doctor Who
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He's a loser and has no support amongst the Iranians. The Iranians want plurality. They want a secular state like Turkey within a Muslim context. The most likely regime change agents are in the military (Artesh) and not the IRCG or Basij. Someone palatable to the West.
 
mwi.westpoint.edu

Eight Military Takeaways from the Maduro Raid - Modern War Institute

Despite steadily heightening tensions, heated rhetoric, US strikes against alleged drug trafficking boats, and a buildup of US forces near Venezuela, news of the successful mission to capture Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro still surprised the world. Much of the discussion since has focused...
mwi.westpoint.edu mwi.westpoint.edu

Over the course of the post-9/11 wars, US special operations forces (SOF)—and particularly, the most elite units—were honed into a sharper tip of the spear than has ever existed in military history. The operation in Venezuela demonstrates that those elite units have retained those capabilities. But it would be a mistake to extrapolate from this narrow action (a raid, conducted by highly trained, exceptionally equipped units, as part of an interagency operation) to a wider mission set. SOF cannot do everything, and conventional forces cannot conduct this type of operation. The risk is that, from the perspective of US policymakers, SOF will remain a tempting hammer that makes everything look like a nail. That’s a poor substitute for strategy.
 
sringwal said:
Chris Farley Idk GIF
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Taking out the political leadership (Ayatollah?) or the heads of the Secret Police - Savak - might be one option. It would be largely symbolic but it would at least be a show of support for the protesters. We know we can find them due to Israeli intelligence.
 
Ramrouser said:
Taking out the political leadership (Ayatollah?) or the heads of the Secret Police - Savak - might be one option. It would be largely symbolic but it would at least be a show of support for the protesters. We know we can find them due to Israeli intelligence.
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Nice to see the GOP has become the Assassination Party. What could possibly go wrong when such things are normalized???
 
lawtig02 said:
Nice to see the GOP has become the Assassination Party. What could possibly go wrong when such things are normalized???
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It's kind of a bipartisan thing we do. Obama disappeared at least 45 foreign terrorist leaders. Biden took out Al-Zawahiri and others.
 
Ramrouser said:
It's kind of a bipartisan thing we do. Obama disappeared at least 45 foreign terrorist leaders. Biden took out Al-Zawahiri and others.
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Tell me how many of those 45 were heads of state? I'm not going to dispute your figure even though I doubt it's correct because it doesn't matter. If you can't see the difference between a foreign terrorist and a head of state then you're dumber than I thought.
 
Still illegal too.
Ramrouser said:
It's kind of a bipartisan thing we do. Obama disappeared at least 45 foreign terrorist leaders. Biden took out Al-Zawahiri and others.
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W started it with about 40 drone strikes in places like Pakistan.

Obama escalated it dramatically with about 480 drone strikes in countries we weren't technically at war with although tightened the rules on bilateral damage from the drone strikes. He got Bin Laden and several other highly placed Al Qaeda terrorists. He also assassinated two American citizens without due process. The only leader to do that.

Trump One scaled the targeted killings way back, but did assassinate probably the highest profile person outside of Bin Laden: the number two in Iran.

Biden scaled it back even further. He's done the most to get us back to a pre-9/11 stance on targeted killings.

Trump Two has somewhat continued Biden's scale of killings but is certainly pretty bellicose about his threats and expanded it to what some would consider more run of the mill criminals on boats in the Caribbean versus terrorists in Somalia.
 
superrific said:
Tell me how many of those 45 were heads of state? I'm not going to dispute your figure even though I doubt it's correct because it doesn't matter. If you can't see the difference between a foreign terrorist and a head of state then you're dumber than I thought.
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Military and secret police officials, as well as other political officials, obviously aren’t heads of state.
 
Ramrouser said:
Military and secret police officials, as well as other political officials, obviously aren’t heads of state.
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Well, they are within the ambit of a head of state. Would you think it OK if a foreign country decided not to go after Trump but decided to take out our Treasury Secretary instead?

The distinction is terrorists -- operating outside of a lawful state structure -- versus high ranking government officials. Surely you can grasp that.
 
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