Iran Catch-All | IRAN WAR

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finesse said:
Now, get out of the Jewish book and go to the Gospels. Those are the words and deeds of Jesus Christ, something Christians might well pay more attention to.
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You're not the first Christian that has wanted to distance themselves from the god of the OT. But the key problem with that approach is that Jesus as portrayed in the gospels specifically endorses the OT. "I have not come to abolish the law or the prophets" he says. Jesus was Jewish. He believed in the OT. He preached the OT. The messiah prophecies claimed in the OT are supposed to be the justification for Jesus's arrival. The entire Christian narrative - creation, original sin, chosen people, messiah -- all stem from the OT. Without the OT Christianity collapses. Mainstream Christianity accepts the OT. So as a Christian you either have to accept the atrocities in the OT or suffer the intellectual dishonesty of cherry picking your favorite parts.

All that to say this reinforces my original point -- using a personal interpretation of the bible to call Christians "real" or "fake" is a fool's errand because the bible contradicts itself over and over. You say ignore the OT. Other Christians can plainly point to Jesus's own words in the NT that say you must uphold the OT. Round the merry go round goes.
 
wmheel1287 said:
I gave you my answer. For the life of me, I can't figure why it bothers you. You can ignore them and me if that suits you. I think there is even a super ignore feature where your ignoring of them also ignores replies to their posts. In any case, you are correct that we can all only choose our own path.
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Same reason I think the 'Shit Trump Says' thread is a bad idea (or reposting every quote tweet of every thing Steven Miller says) is a bad idea.

Mind viruses spread by contagion. IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU REPOST IS CRITICAL OF THE TROLL'S FASCIST THOUGHT OF THE DAY (but worse if the reposting in neutral/uncritical like most posts in Shit Trump Says). All publicity is good publicity. The way you fight a mind virus is you quarantine it. What you don't do (or at least what I would plead that we don't do on this site) is spread it all over the internet in the form of quote posts (no matter how good your argument is).

Every iota of exposure to these these ideas normalizes them one more degree. There is no bad publicity. I would urge that we have the collective discipline to not be an additional disease vector and help and spread that crap all around.

I think the important thing to realize is you and the troll are playing two different games, using two different sets of rules. When you reply, by your rules you are winning. But at the same time, by making the same reply, by the troll's rules the troll is also winning, big time. And to them spreading the mind virus is the win.

While I'm no means an expert in information warfare, propaganda, and swaying popular sentiment, I do have a pretty damn good grounding in the subject. Enough to know the basic mechanics of how all this works.

Of course everyone on this site is going to make their own decisions for their own reasons and I can't (and wouldn't want to, even if I could) force anyone to do anything differently. All I can do is ask.

But you did ask why it bothers me, so I figured it was worth the effort to write up why it bothers me.
 
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Milk and Cookies said:
You're not the first Christian that has wanted to distance themselves from the god of the OT. But the key problem with that approach is that Jesus as portrayed in the gospels specifically endorses the OT. "I have not come to abolish the law or the prophets" he says. Jesus was Jewish. He believed in the OT. He preached the OT. The messiah prophecies claimed in the OT are supposed to be the justification for Jesus's arrival. The entire Christian narrative - creation, original sin, chosen people, messiah -- all stem from the OT. Without the OT Christianity collapses. Mainstream Christianity accepts the OT. So as a Christian you either have to accept the atrocities in the OT or suffer the intellectual dishonesty of cherry picking your favorite parts.
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I'm not a Christian but I'm pretty familiar with the Bible. What you are referring to are myths about their history that are unproven and unprovable, and are neither law or prophecy. If Christianity were so dependent on the OT, especially the Protestants who believe it's the literal word of God, they should at least use the same version, wouldn't you think?

What kind of cherry picker do you use? Did you miss the whole refutation of the dietary laws, Jesus putting love ahead the Commandments when the woman was accused of adultery or the entire Sermon on the Mount? You know, that whole" Blessed are the peacemakers"? Could you be more full of nonsense? Is there anything in the Bible that happened before the Babylonian captivity that has any provenance? It's pretty much confirmed that the Exodus story was eiter greatly exaggerated or completely bogus, so the whole underpinnings of the Promised Land is highly questionable.
 
wmheel1287 said:
There won't be anything left of Iran's military? Do tell how we are destroying their ground forces, heavy armor, etc. Who shall control those? Do the military commanders just abandon it all? Iran has immense oil riches and the internal fights for those will ne epic. We gonna just sit all that out?

I cant believe you say shit like that and accuse others of naivete.

Do you realize how many Iranians will have been completely turned into sworn enemies of the US after all of this?
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Do you mean all those who were begging trump for help and dancing in the streets after he attacked? Or those already brainwashed who join Iran’s proxies and who have long hated the US? Which ones?
 
Callatoroy said:
At this point you are nothing more than a disciple of Omar and Talib. A poster child for social media influencers brainwashing people due to their own ignorance. You are theses influencers sheep.
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This sounds awfully familiar. Except this time, the Republican war machine is starting underwater.

www.pewresearch.org

A Look Back at How Fear and False Beliefs Bolstered U.S. Public Support for War in Iraq

Twenty years ago this month, the U.S. launched a major invasion of Iraq. President George W. Bush and his administration at first drew broad public support for the use of military force. Yet the campaign soon left Americans deeply divided, and by 2019, 62% said the Iraq War was not worth fighting.
www.pewresearch.org www.pewresearch.org

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Ddseddse said:
Weekly P.S.A.: Please do not engage posters who are not posting in good faith.

You are playing directly into their hands, and handing them their hearts desire on a silver platter.

Piss them off by ignoring them and letting them howl impotently into the void.
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Hahahahahaha. There cant be more than 5 conservative posters on this board and ddseddse wants those 5 put on ignore because he dislikes their opinions. Pathetic and weak. The very definition of living in an echo chamber.
 
Icky Mettle said:
If Hegseth wants to send troops to Iran, then he should be on the ground with them.
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I’m honestly kind of surprised he’s not there already. He certainly seems to fancy himself some sort of martyr and by all accounts was desperate to see combat when he was in the reserves.
 
lawtig02 said:
This sounds awfully familiar. Except this time, the Republican war machine is starting underwater.

www.pewresearch.org

A Look Back at How Fear and False Beliefs Bolstered U.S. Public Support for War in Iraq

Twenty years ago this month, the U.S. launched a major invasion of Iraq. President George W. Bush and his administration at first drew broad public support for the use of military force. Yet the campaign soon left Americans deeply divided, and by 2019, 62% said the Iraq War was not worth fighting.
www.pewresearch.org www.pewresearch.org

1772720838827.png
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Agree with you. However, that wrong doesnt make every future act wrong. I get the ill informed are against this. However public opinion can’t drive national security policy. The administration has done a piss poor job in explaining its mission and purpose for action. Nothing new there. Iran has publicly acknowledged having uranium enriched to 60%. Doesn’t take long to get to 80 / 90%.
 
Callatoroy said:
Agree with you. However, that wrong doesnt make every future act wrong. I get the ill informed are against this. However public opinion can’t drive national security policy. The administration has done a piss poor job in explaining its mission and purpose for action. Nothing new there. Iran has publicly acknowledged having uranium enriched to 60%. Doesn’t take long to get to 80 / 90%.
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Hilarious that the Trump supporter would call others misinformed. You thought people were eating motherfucking pets man.
 
finesse said:
I'm not a Christian but I'm pretty familiar with the Bible. What you are referring to are myths about their history that are unproven and unprovable, and are neither law or prophecy. If Christianity were so dependent on the OT, especially the Protestants who believe it's the literal word of God, they should at least use the same version, wouldn't you think?

What kind of cherry picker do you use? Did you miss the whole refutation of the dietary laws, Jesus putting love ahead the Commandments when the woman was accused of adultery or the entire Sermon on the Mount? You know, that whole" Blessed are the peacemakers"? Could you be more full of nonsense? Is there anything in the Bible that happened before the Babylonian captivity that has any provenance? It's pretty much confirmed that the Exodus story was eiter greatly exaggerated or completely bogus, so the whole underpinnings of the Promised Land is highly questionable.
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Whether or not the OT is historically accurate is a completely different argument. You're trying to shift the goal posts from theology to archeology.

Back to the point, the NT authors treat the OT as authoritative scripture. Over and over in the NT Jesus is depicted as upholding the scripture (OT) and it being referred to as "god-breathed". You said Christians pay attention to the words of Jesus -- well Jesus's words support the teachings of the OT.
And AGAIN you're illustrating my point completely. I'm not saying the OT is correct/accurate or the NT-onlyists are correct. I'm pointing out that the bible in its entirety is not internally consistent and cannot be used reliably for claims of "real" vs "fake" Christians because interpretations between different sects can vary widely and all point back to different passages for justification.
 
Callatoroy said:
Agree with you. However, that wrong doesnt make every future act wrong. I get the ill informed are against this. However public opinion can’t drive national security policy. The administration has done a piss poor job in explaining its mission and purpose for action. Nothing new there. Iran has publicly acknowledged having uranium enriched to 60%. Doesn’t take long to get to 80 / 90%.
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That's the point. How do YOU know the mission and purpose for this war? Nobody has told us yet. And without that information, how can one possibly conclude the war is in furtherance of our national security? We're ALL "ill informed" -- you as well. That may be because there is a legitimate concern and we haven't been told about it. It also may be because there is NO national security rationale for what we're doing. It's not the American people's job to assume #1 when it could just as easily be #2. If anything, we've learned to be justifiably skeptical until we're given the actual facts, and even then, to question whether those facts have been manipulated.
 
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