Iran Catch-All | IRAN WAR

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies: 7K
  • Views: 219K
  • Politics 
Callatoroy said:
So are you ok in 5 years handing that regime nuclear bombs? Because that is exactly what that agreement did.

Israel (nor SA, UAE, Jordan, Iraq, etc) surely wouldn’t be ok and we would be in a much worse situation with a much higher threat of nuclear weapons being used. It’s existential to Israel. Not sure how people don’t understand how fucked it would be for the US to green light Iran’s development of nukes

My intent in criticizing the agreement wasn’t an indictment of Obama. Pub and dem presidents have kicked the can down the road since the revolution and all share in the blame in not addressing the Iran nuke problem. Trump decided to not kick the can anymore for a multitude of reasons. Reasonable people can agree with it or disagree. I happen to agree. That doesn’t mean I agree with everything he has done since and sure as hell doesn’t mean I agree with what has come out of his mouth. He has made it much harder than he had to but that is how he rolls. We disagree on the decision to act, but I have many of the same concerns you do.
Click to expand...
You keep saying things like “this is how he rolls” and “this is the messaging” as if those things do not matter. They do matter. They are of significant importance.

You wave away concerns about rhetoric and propaganda as if they were insignificant gnats, but the rhetoric and propaganda go to the soul of who Trump is. His bluster and hatred that litter his talk are part and parcel of who he is and his policies. It’s why supporters think they have free rein to storm the capitol on January 6. It’s why ICE thinks they can just shoot and detain people without warrants. It’s why we have a secretary of defense invoking holy war and having his Christian nationalist pastor spreading his hatred at government functions. It’s why the administration cites racist white supremacists to try and overturn birthright citizenship.
Our president is an awful person who supports awful ideas. There is no separating his ridiculous, inflammatory rhetoric from who he is as a person or who he is as president.
 
LeoBloom said:
You keep saying things like “this is how he rolls” and “this is the messaging” as if those things do not matter. They do matter. They are of significant importance.

You wave away concerns about rhetoric and propaganda as if they were insignificant gnats, but the rhetoric and propaganda go to the soul of who Trump is. His bluster and hatred that litter his talk are part and parcel of who he is and his policies. It’s why supporters think they have free rein to storm the capitol on January 6. It’s why ICE thinks they can just shoot and detain people without warrants. It’s why we have a secretary of defense invoking holy war and having his Christian nationalist pastor spreading his hatred at government functions. It’s why the administration cites racist white supremacists to try and overturn birthright citizenship.
Our president is an awful person who supports awful ideas. There is no separating his ridiculous, inflammatory rhetoric from who he is as a person or who he is as president.
Click to expand...
You are right that rhetoric and propaganda matter. I so wish he wouldn’t act like and talk like a petulant child. His comments about the SC today are horrible. However, the difference between you and me is that I place more importance on the actions and policies than the rhetoric and crass behavior. I despise the behavior. You despise the behavior and the policy. It is possible to like the policies and not the man. I have accepted he isn’t going to start behaving and speaking presidentially. I can dwell on it while knowing it won’t change or accept that it won’t change and be less angry by the baffoonery.
 
Calheel said:
So it is the Iran speech that has allies concerned? Not the years of complete buffoonery and incompetence before that?

I have trouble believing that this speech moved the needle in any way in how our allies view Donald Trump.
Click to expand...
I don’t think he meant that it was the first instance of concern from US allies.
 
Callatoroy said:
Water is wet

Farce “no it’s not”
Click to expand...
trump sounds nuet dr a review of them
LeoBloom said:
You keep saying things like “this is how he rolls” and “this is the messaging” as if those things do not matter. They do matter. They are of significant importance.

You wave away concerns about rhetoric and propaganda as if they were insignificant gnats, but the rhetoric and propaganda go to the soul of who Trump is. His bluster and hatred that litter his talk are part and parcel of who he is and his policies. It’s why supporters think they have free rein to storm the capitol on January 6. It’s why ICE thinks they can just shoot and detain people without warrants. It’s why we have a secretary of defense invoking holy war and having his Christian nationalist pastor spreading his hatred at government functions. It’s why the administration cites racist white supremacists to try and overturn birthright citizenship.
Our president is an awful person who supports awful ideas. There is no separating his ridiculous, inflammatory rhetoric from who he is as a person or who he is as president.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but how otherwise can you look at the facts of whats going on here, epstein, grift or just huckster behavior?

They give him this talking point..
 
Callatoroy said:
And yet, my comments are totally sincere. I know you are baffled that some people can separate logic and objectivity from emotion.
Click to expand...
You tell yourself this. There is nothing logical about support for Donald Trump. He has never been successful at anything other than stealing money and conning people.
 
Callatoroy said:
This is a very naive take, and was fact checking trump's comments. trump's comments are usually not fact based. And, based on iran's participation in the 1970 npa treaty which they treated like trash. They were actively pursuing nukes while a member of the treaty. That treaty was meaningless to iran. Why people think anything that relies on trusting iran is meaningful is absolutely insane. Read the underlined. The entire thing was based on iran "being a good actor and doing the right thing" Even inspections were very limited and required weeks notice. For promising to play nice it gave them access to approximately $50 billion that they poured into terrorism. I don't understand people jcd'ing that "agreement" when common sense says it was a terrible deal.

1) What the JCPOA actually said (legally)​

  • Iran permanently committed not to “seek, develop or acquire” nuclear weapons under the deal and the broader nonproliferation system.
  • Some monitoring and inspection measures continue well beyond 2031 (into the 2030s–2040s).
👉 So on paper, the deal never gave Iran permission to build nuclear weapons at any time.

2) What changes around 2030–2031 (the “sunsets”)

Many of the strict technical limits expire:
  • Limits on uranium stockpile and enrichment levels end around 2031
  • Iran can expand use of advanced centrifuges starting earlier (mid-to-late 2020s)
  • After 2031, Iran could enrich uranium without the earlier caps, potentially even to weapons-grade if it chose
👉 In practical terms:
After 2031, Iran could have a much larger and more advanced nuclear program with fewer constraints

Bottom line
  • The JCPOA did not authorize Iran to get nuclear weapons after 2031.
  • But it allowed major restrictions to expire, meaning Iran could legally expand its nuclear program in ways that might reduce the time needed to build a weapon if it chose to break its commitments.
Click to expand...
They were agreeing to the deal up until Trump tore up the deal. That is a fact. The world had leverage to help ensure Iran complied. Trump ruined that.

The deal could and would have been renegotiated and extended but Trump ruined any chance of that as well.

If you want to talk naive, we can talk about how this war was supposed to end in 5 weeks (sound familiar?) How did that turn out?
 
Last edited:
Republicans between 2012 and 2020: “If you vote for Obama, Clinton, Biden, or Harris, they will lead into a war with Iran. Only Trump will keep us out of war with Iran!”

Today: “Only Trump was brave enough to lead us into war with Iran!”
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top