Iran Catch-All | Protester Massacre? CBS reports 12,000+ killed

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For reference, China was estimated to kill 500-2,500 in the Tiananmen Square protests in 1989.

China News GIF by HuffPost

When that crackdown happened in 1989, I told my dad I wanted to join the marines (what can I say, I was an angry but misguided 20 year-old female college student — the Marines weren’t clamoring for female enlisted then). He said he would take me to enlist IN THE NAVY (never the marines) himself if the USA actually went to defend the student protesters (knowing full well that would not happen and if it did no way women would be sent to combat).
 
nycfan said:
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If I were an Iranian in Iran at this point in time and was adverse to ruling elites, then I'm not sure I would want to be making out of country phone calls. Seems like a "Here I am, come get me" sort of message. I'm pretty sure the ruling elite's secret police would not believe I was actually calling Amazon about my, as yet, undelivered package of prayer rugs.
 
nycfan said:
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For any other president, that would be an amazing statement. Comes off as a bit hollow from Trump with all the other drivel he produces on Truth social.

But good for him for doing it. Obama didn't do it when he had the chance and wound up regretting it.

Not really sure what we can do though. Sanctions are probably not going to be that effective as we've had them forever. Not a big fan of intervening militarily in an Iranian civil war, but maybe we could provide military support through the Shites in Iraq. I guess we could also potentially provide air support and a new fly zone if it comes down to it.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
For any other president, that would be an amazing statement. Comes off with more hollow from Trump with all the other dribble he makes.

But good for him for doing it. Obama didn't do it when he had the chance and wound up regretting it.

Not really sure what we can do though. Sanctions are probably not going to be that effective as we've had them forever. Not a big fan of intervening militarily in an Iranian civil war, but maybe we could provide military support through the Shites in Iraq. I guess we could also potentially provide air support and a new fly zone if it comes down to it.
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I would personally consider it immoral to say this and not follow-up to protect the people you are encouraging to put their lives on the line, but that’s just my personal view.

My emotional inclination is end this here and now but how do we actually do that and what are the risks of a collapse of Iran? The limits of power are real and make for some terrible alternatives.
 
nycfan said:
I would personally consider it immoral to say this and not follow-up to protect the people you are encouraging to put their lives on the line, but that’s just my personal view.

My emotional inclination is end this here and now but how do we actually do that and what are the risks of a collapse of Iran? The limits of power are real and make for some terrible alternatives.
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I think you're right but I'm conflicted too. I would also consider it immoral not to back up that statement with some sort of support, but at the same time I don't want any part of another decades long Middle East intervention in support of a civil war.

Not just a question for you but anyone. Have we ever successfully intervened to support an uprising? We didn't after tiananmen square and there was no regime change. We didn't after the Berlin Wall fell and there was substantial regime change. We didn't really do too much during the Arab spring in Tunisia and Egypt but did provide a fair amount of military support in Libya. Libya is a disaster and Tunisia went okay. Egypt probably was going down the wrong road but eventually the Egyptian military stepped in with our tacit support and did okay.

I would like to know some historical examples good and bad so we know which path is likely to lead to success.
 
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nycfan said:
I would personally consider it immoral to say this and not follow-up to protect the people you are encouraging to put their lives on the line, but that’s just my personal view.

My emotional inclination is end this here and now but how do we actually do that and what are the risks of a collapse of Iran? The limits of power are real and make for some terrible alternatives.
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Agreed. The United States has to act, and it needs to be ASAP. Otherwise, we are putting Iranian protesters in the line of fire with the false promise of support.
 
nycfan said:


it takes you away series 11 GIF by Doctor Who
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He's a loser and has no support amongst the Iranians. The Iranians want plurality. They want a secular state like Turkey within a Muslim context. The most likely regime change agents are in the military (Artesh) and not the IRCG or Basij. Someone palatable to the West.
 
mwi.westpoint.edu

Eight Military Takeaways from the Maduro Raid - Modern War Institute

Despite steadily heightening tensions, heated rhetoric, US strikes against alleged drug trafficking boats, and a buildup of US forces near Venezuela, news of the successful mission to capture Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro still surprised the world. Much of the discussion since has focused...
mwi.westpoint.edu mwi.westpoint.edu

Over the course of the post-9/11 wars, US special operations forces (SOF)—and particularly, the most elite units—were honed into a sharper tip of the spear than has ever existed in military history. The operation in Venezuela demonstrates that those elite units have retained those capabilities. But it would be a mistake to extrapolate from this narrow action (a raid, conducted by highly trained, exceptionally equipped units, as part of an interagency operation) to a wider mission set. SOF cannot do everything, and conventional forces cannot conduct this type of operation. The risk is that, from the perspective of US policymakers, SOF will remain a tempting hammer that makes everything look like a nail. That’s a poor substitute for strategy.
 
Had this massacre occurred in 2024, I wonder if Trump would’ve said the blood was on Biden’s hands and never would’ve happened if he was in office.
 
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