Iran Catch-All | Protester Massacre? CBS reports 12,000+ killed

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Paine said:
The idea that Iran would nuke the U.S. or Israel is just pure fearmongering. It’s not grounded in strategy or history, it’s manufactured to justify endless violence.
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It is grounded in Iran's explicit goals and statements. Religious fanatics don't always behave logically.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Iran has been completely castrated over the last 2 years. We'd never get a better chance to take out those bunkers if we passed this one up. Sometimes you have to take the opportunities that you are given, and when you are given the opportunity to hit a grand slam in the bottom of the 6th you take it instead of assuming that you'll have the same chance when you are down by 2 in the 9th.
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You’ve succeeded in derailing the thread so I hope you’ll pat yourself on the back and leave soon, but I also hope you’ll stop equating Iran to some place like Gaza. Iran is a massively powerful nation. They still are. We — including you and Trump — underestimate them at our peril.
 
lawtig02 said:
You’ve succeeded in derailing the thread so I hope you’ll pat yourself on the back and leave soon, but I also hope you’ll stop equating Iran to some place like Gaza. Iran is a massively powerful nation. They still are. We — including you and Trump — underestimate them at our peril.
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How is the thread derailed? We are literally talking about the strike on Iran's nuclear program.

Iran has proven that they are a paper tiger. They are less than that, actually. They are a paper mosquito at this point.
 
uncjhodges said:
Then why do you think they’re just going to
give up in their quest for a nuclear weapon or respond rationally?
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They aren't going to give up in their quest for a nuke, but they also can't manufacture one overnight. Hence the secret underground nuclear development facility that we just destroyed. It is hard - very hard - to manufacture a nuclear weapon. We just made it a million times harder for them.
 
HandsonFire said:
Am I the only one that thinks the US military would annihilate any attempts by Iran to block the Strait? They sure couldn’t stop Israel from invading their airspace at will, why is the Strait any different?
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You need to disregard what the US military could do. If you owned a tanker, is there any way you would send it in that narrow strait knowing Iran could hit it with a pretty cheap drone, missile, or mine? And then you got the way Ukraine cleared out the Russian Navy from the Black sea. And if nothing else, it was Iran that originally perfected suicide bombers. Any speed boat would work in that case.
 
BlueSmoke said:
You need to disregard what the US military could do. If you owned a tanker, is there any way you would send it in that narrow strait knowing Iran could hit it with a pretty cheap drone, missile, or mine? And then you got the way Ukraine cleared out the Russian Navy from the Black sea. And if nothing else, it was Iran that originally perfected suicide bombers. Any speed boat would work in that case.
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There were trackers last night showing oil tankers busting a U-turn.
 
lawtig02 said:
These two posts together are a great example of the point. NOBODY knows what will happen from here. Nobody on this board knows. Trump sure as hell doesn’t know. That’s terrifying to me, but anyone saying with certainly how this will turn out is just way, way premature.
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Which, of course, is one of the reasons it would be nice to have adults making the decisions. As Rumsfeld used to say, there are the known unknowns and the unknown unknowns. Presidents need to make decisions all the time with imperfect knowledge. A good president would be analytical and take calculated risks. Trump just makes decisions based on emotion and how he thinks it will sell.
 
This news is already posted here, including this for the tanker activity in the Persian Gulf and Strait of Hormuz

 
ZZLPHeels said:
Well, we certainly aren't going to be nuked by Iran anymore. My list of worries this morning is much smaller than it was yesterday.
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Dude. The Soviets got the bomb in 1949 I think. China followed. India and Pakistan have nukes. Israel has a nuke. North Korea has nukes.

All of those countries have been ruled by religious fanatics and/or even worse fanatics like Kim Jong Un. India and Israel are currently ruled by religious fanatics, and just give Pakistan a few years and they will swing back.

How many times have any of those countries used their nukes? Oh right. But you think the religious fanatics in Iran -- unlike the religious fanatics ruling those other countries -- would self-destruct? Explain how the Supreme Leader of Iran is 86 years old, then. If he didn't care about his own welfare, if he didn't care about his life, how the fuck did he get so old? Wouldn't the religious fanatic have done something, well, fanatical? Look at their councils of clerics. Old, old, old. They are not suicidal and never have been.

The burden is on you and all proponents of bombing to provide evidence that Iran -- uniquely among the world's governments -- would be suicidal end-time armageddonists. Since they have never been that way, it's going to be a tough case but we'll see what you come up with.
 
I had long hoped we might develop Iran as an ally. I thought we might achieve this by dropping sanctions in return for a peace treaty between Iran and Israel. We could have offered aid and infrastructure development. I’ve never found their nuclear program any more frightening than North Korea or Pakistan. A significant portion of the Iranian population has traditionally been favorable to the U.S. Through peaceful engagement we might have eventually seen a democratic Iran. An attack like this turns the entire population against us. In one day we have made a forever enemy. Even if Iran “surrenders” I suspect they will redouble their efforts to produce a bomb- and they will be more inclined to use it on us rather than Israel.
 
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