Iran Catch-All | Protester Massacre? CBS reports 12,000+ killed

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Purple Nurple said:
Oh wow Thank you for not deeming me hopelessly stupid.

Yes. Trump decided to bomb them. Don’t you think that somewhere in that calculus he was assured of the result of such an attack. I’ve read/seen for years about the MOAB and their capabilities. That didn’t pan out.

Turns out Russia doesn’t have a mighty military that will just roll over its neighbors. The USA can’t just drop bombs and obliterate the objective.

Seems like a black eye for both with regard to their military prowess.
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1. Well, most of our conservative posters aspire to mere hopeless stupidity, so yeah it's a low bar. Didn't mean to offend.
2. I think that Trump does not get any information that is remotely accurate. He has made it super-clear that he's only willing to listen to what he wants to hear. So, no, I do not think that he was "assured" of the result in any rational meaning of that term.
3. Hegseth probably told him that it would work 100%. This is what happens, right? Hegseth's position was precarious because, as has been reported, he's been pissing a lot of people off with his incompetence, vanity and inexperience. So from Hegseth's view, the bombing was a way to save his job. The most important thing was getting it to happen. If it was a success, then he's a hero. If it isn't, if he overpromised, well he's out the door anyway.

This is, of course, a dynamic that any sports fan knows: the coach or GM on the hot seat makes risky moves to shoot for the moon, because failure doesn't matter given that they would lose their jobs anyway. Good managers know how to address these situations.

I doubt Trump even thinks about the motivations of his underlings at all, and certainly cannot take them into account when making assessments.

4. I really do not think this is a black eye on the military. It was Trump. And of course he didn't think about the strategic element at all. Before now, that big bomb was really scary and it was a stick in our arsenal. It's still scary, but it's a little less scary than it was. Which is why it should have been deployed only in an emergency situation, allowing the US to retain the strategic ambiguity as to our capabilities. Instead Trump blew it on Bibi's vanity project.

It's these small things that fully expose Trump for the idiot he is.
 

“… Mohammadi said the Iranian regime is using the post-conflict climate to increase pressure on civil society activists, political prisoners, and dissidents.

In response to Iranian officials’ claims of “victory” in the war, Mohammadi said: “I simply don’t believe it. War weakens the tools that help bring democracy and human rights, like civil society.”…”
 

China and Russia Keep Their Distance From Iran During Crisis​

Some U.S. officials talked about an “axis” of authoritarian nations, but the American and Israeli war with Iran has exposed the limits of that idea.


“… It appeared that the four countries were united by anger, authoritarianism and animus against the United States and its allies.

But Iran’s sales of drones and ballistic missiles to Russia for its war and oil shipped to China did not pay off when it mattered, raising doubts about unity among the nations.

None of the other three states rushed to aid Iran during its war with Israel or when U.S. forces bombed Iranian nuclear sites. China and Russia, by far the two most powerful countries among the four, issued pro forma denunciations of the American actions but did not lift a finger to materially help Iran.…”
 

A Defiant Iran Draws on the Lessons of an Earlier War​

The brutal fight against Saddam Hussein’s Iraq four decades ago shaped the recent war and guides Iran’s next steps​


🎁 —> https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-ea...e?st=ZasS8X&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

“…
While battered, Iran has remained defiant, most recently by ending cooperation with international nuclear inspectors, a move that closes the world’s window on of its program.

After the U.S. bombed Iran’s core nuclear facilities, the regime vowed to keep its nuclear program going. Abdolrahim Mousavi, the new chief of staff of Iran’s armed forces, said Iran “won’t back down.” Israel had killed his predecessor days earlier.

The pronouncements reflect wartime bravado. Israel’s campaign, in which it quickly established dominance in Iran’s skies and simultaneously hit many nuclear scientists and military leaders, demonstrated its overwhelming military superiority and the extensive penetration of the regime by its spies.

Iran launched a major crackdown once the shooting stopped to reassert its domestic control….”
 
Purple Nurple said:
Oh wow Thank you for not deeming me hopelessly stupid.

Yes. Trump decided to bomb them. Don’t you think that somewhere in that calculus he was assured of the result of such an attack. I’ve read/seen for years about the MOAB and their capabilities. That didn’t pan out.

Turns out Russia doesn’t have a mighty military that will just roll over its neighbors. The USA can’t just drop bombs and obliterate the objective.

Seems like a black eye for both with regard to their military prowess.
Click to expand...
For the second time I will point out that MOAB is not a bomb you would use against a fortified bunker. It is not intended to be a bunker buster type bomb. It is design to spread out the explosive force not concentrate and it like you would need to destroy a bunker.

They did not use MOAB in Iran because it would be a dumb weapon to use.

Apparently you didn’t read nearly enough about MOAB.
 
superrific said:
1. Well, most of our conservative posters aspire to mere hopeless stupidity, so yeah it's a low bar. Didn't mean to offend.
2. I think that Trump does not get any information that is remotely accurate. He has made it super-clear that he's only willing to listen to what he wants to hear. So, no, I do not think that he was "assured" of the result in any rational meaning of that term.
3. Hegseth probably told him that it would work 100%. This is what happens, right? Hegseth's position was precarious because, as has been reported, he's been pissing a lot of people off with his incompetence, vanity and inexperience. So from Hegseth's view, the bombing was a way to save his job. The most important thing was getting it to happen. If it was a success, then he's a hero. If it isn't, if he overpromised, well he's out the door anyway.

This is, of course, a dynamic that any sports fan knows: the coach or GM on the hot seat makes risky moves to shoot for the moon, because failure doesn't matter given that they would lose their jobs anyway. Good managers know how to address these situations.

I doubt Trump even thinks about the motivations of his underlings at all, and certainly cannot take them into account when making assessments.

4. I really do not think this is a black eye on the military. It was Trump. And of course he didn't think about the strategic element at all. Before now, that big bomb was really scary and it was a stick in our arsenal. It's still scary, but it's a little less scary than it was. Which is why it should have been deployed only in an emergency situation, allowing the US to retain the strategic ambiguity as to our capabilities. Instead Trump blew it on Bibi's vanity project.

It's these small things that fully expose Trump for the idiot he is.
Click to expand...
Trump's brain is obliterated.
 


Claims he cancelled it and said maybe he would do it in two weeks but then the next day he had the genius idea to do it as scheduled because that was “the only time” Iran wouldn’t expect it.

Also claims Iran had the most dangerous airspace in the world (even though at the time one of the reasons to do it was Israel controlled Iranian airspace).
 
nycfan said:


Claims he cancelled it and said maybe he would do it in two weeks but then the next day he had the genius idea to do it as scheduled because that was “the only time” Iran wouldn’t expect it.

Also claims Iran had the most dangerous airspace in the world (even though at the time one of the reasons to do it was Israel controlled Iranian airspace).
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Hey, calla. How can you listen to this and think the guy you're voted for is competent to lead our military? He makes a highly-diminished Biden sound like Albert Einstein.
 


“… One of the three nuclear enrichment sites in Iran struck by the United States last month was mostly destroyed, setting work there back significantly. But the two others were not as badly damaged and may have been degraded only to a point where nuclear enrichment could resume in the next several months if Iran wants it to, according to a recent U.S. assessment of the destruction caused by the military operation, five current and former U.S. officials familiar with the assessment told NBC News.

… NBC News has also learned that U.S. Central Command had developed a much more comprehensive plan to strike Iran that would have involved hitting three additional sites in an operation that would have stretched for several weeks instead of a single night, according to a current U.S. official and two former U.S. officials.

President Donald Trump was briefed on that plan, but it was rejected because it was at odds with his foreign policy instincts to extract the United States from conflicts abroad, not dig deeper into them, as well as the possibility of a high number of casualties on both sides, one of the current officials and one of the former officials said.

“We were willing to go all the way in our options, but the president did not want to,” one of the sources with knowledge of the plan said….”
 
nycfan said:


“… One of the three nuclear enrichment sites in Iran struck by the United States last month was mostly destroyed, setting work there back significantly. But the two others were not as badly damaged and may have been degraded only to a point where nuclear enrichment could resume in the next several months if Iran wants it to, according to a recent U.S. assessment of the destruction caused by the military operation, five current and former U.S. officials familiar with the assessment told NBC News.

… NBC News has also learned that U.S. Central Command had developed a much more comprehensive plan to strike Iran that would have involved hitting three additional sites in an operation that would have stretched for several weeks instead of a single night, according to a current U.S. official and two former U.S. officials.

President Donald Trump was briefed on that plan, but it was rejected because it was at odds with his foreign policy instincts to extract the United States from conflicts abroad, not dig deeper into them, as well as the possibility of a high number of casualties on both sides, one of the current officials and one of the former officials said.

“We were willing to go all the way in our options, but the president did not want to,” one of the sources with knowledge of the plan said….”
Click to expand...

“…
The recent assessment is a snapshot of the damage U.S. strikes inflicted amid an intelligence-gathering process that administration officials have said is expected to continue for months. Assessments of Iran’s nuclear program after the U.S. strikes are expected to change over time, and according to two of the current officials, as the process progresses, the findings suggest more damage than previous assessments revealed. That assessment remains for now the current thinking on the impact of the strikes, officials said.

“As the President has said and experts have verified, Operation Midnight Hammer totally obliterated Iran’s nuclear capabilities,” White House spokeswoman Anna Kelly told NBC News in a statement. “America and the world are safer, thanks to his decisive action.”

In a statement of his own, chief Pentagon spokesman Sean Parnell said: “The credibility of the Fake News Media is similar to that of the current state of the Iranian nuclear facilities: destroyed, in the dirt, and will take years to recover. President Trump was clear and the American people understand: Iran’s nuclear facilities in Fordow, Isfahan, and Natanz were completely and totally obliterated. There is no doubt about that.”

… The U.S. strikes targeted three enrichment sites in Iran: Fordo, Natanz and Isfahan. U.S. officials believe the attack on Fordo, which has long been viewed as a critical component of Iran’s nuclear ambitions, was successful in setting back Iranian enrichment capabilities at that site by as much as two years, according to two of the current officials.

Much of the administration’s public messaging about the strikes has focused on Fordo. In a Pentagon briefing they held in response to reporting on an initial Defense Intelligence Agency assessment that concluded that Iran’s nuclear program had been set back by only three to six months, for instance, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and Gen. Dan Caine, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, talked extensively about the strike at Fordo but not the strikes at Natanz and Isfahan.…”
 
nycfan said:
“As the President has said and experts have verified, Operation Midnight Hammer totally obliterated Iran’s nuclear capabilities,” White House spokeswoman Anna Kelly told NBC News in a statement. “America and the world are safer, thanks to his decisive action.”
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I had some great Indian food last night and totally obliterated my toilet this morning. Fortunately, it took me about as much time to restore it to functionality as it will take Iran to resume its nuclear program.
 
nycfan said:


“… One of the three nuclear enrichment sites in Iran struck by the United States last month was mostly destroyed, setting work there back significantly. But the two others were not as badly damaged and may have been degraded only to a point where nuclear enrichment could resume in the next several months if Iran wants it to, according to a recent U.S. assessment of the destruction caused by the military operation, five current and former U.S. officials familiar with the assessment told NBC News.

… NBC News has also learned that U.S. Central Command had developed a much more comprehensive plan to strike Iran that would have involved hitting three additional sites in an operation that would have stretched for several weeks instead of a single night, according to a current U.S. official and two former U.S. officials.

President Donald Trump was briefed on that plan, but it was rejected because it was at odds with his foreign policy instincts to extract the United States from conflicts abroad, not dig deeper into them, as well as the possibility of a high number of casualties on both sides, one of the current officials and one of the former officials said.

“We were willing to go all the way in our options, but the president did not want to,” one of the sources with knowledge of the plan said….”
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This gives me some hope. Whatever Trump does something that seems like it might start world war 3, he does tend to pull back really quickly not getting us into some defense manufacturers' quagmire wet dream. So far it has worked.
 
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