IRAN WAR Catch-All

lawtig02 said:
It's horrible. I think the Iranians know that Trump hates being mocked more than just about anything else. But these are really high stakes being negotiated right now, and nobody should have any confidence either side is capable of doing what will be required to reach a deal. The most likely outcome is still that Trump will quit and claim victory while leaving the situation far worse than he found it, but everything is still in play right now.
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Obama reached a deal with Iran that was working, but it took two years of building support with our allies, thoughtful planning how we approached the negotiations, and refraining from bombing them or threatening to wipe out their entire entire civilization if they did not bend to our will.

I'm hoping we elect another savvy, intelligent, and informed president like Obama in 2028 who could reestablish something similar to the JCPOA, but it might require a 2nd term for that president to get such a deal.
 
TarHeeledTexan said:
Those assumptions are why repair and back to the old ways aren’t going to work. Those bridges are burned. If I were a Western leader, I’d hold the US at arms length knowing that we could turn at any second until proven otherwise over a decade and multiple changes in government to make sure we don’t back slide. But we likely will backslide.
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So once again everything Trump touches dies...including good relations with our allies and trade partners ?
 
heelinhell said:
so once again, everything Trump touches dies...even anti-proliferation ?
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Well, what do you think? I think the reality is that the number of countries who will see a near-term need for a nuclear defense is much higher than the number of countries who would spend any political capital to oppose it.

Part of the problem is that many European countries -- i.e. ones who should be against proliferation -- are now desparate. Poland will be getting nukes. Finland too. Ukraine of course, whenever they can. Etc.
 
heelinhell said:
I agree

Trump alienated us from our allies and America was no longer considered the leader of the free world. By the end of Biden's 1st year he had repaired relations with our allies and restored our role as the leader of the free world.

Of course Trump has done far more damage to our reputation and relationship with our allies this time around. Canada has no respect for this America today nor do all European countries. Repairing the damage this time around will take the entire 1st term and most of the 2nd term ... assuming we have a Democratic president and a Democratic controlled Congress.
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Restoring trust and faith in the US will likely take two successive and successful Democratic terms (same person) followed by a third or fourth Democratic term and then 1-2 terms of a sane, non-MAGA Republican, one who doesn’t try to break NATO or global trade.

I doubt our allies are trustful until the GOP demonstrates MAGA doesn’t rule the GOP.
 
Zoo_View said:
Restoring trust and faith in the US will likely take two successive and successful Democratic terms (same person) followed by a third or fourth Democratic term and then 1-2 terms of a sane, non-MAGA Republican, one who doesn’t try to break NATO or global trade.

I doubt our allies are trustful until the GOP demonstrates MAGA doesn’t rule the GOP.
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Good luck with that. It's happened exactly once in the last century. FDR to Truman. Republicans had it twice Harding/Coolidge to Hoover and Reagan to first Bush. Keeping the incumbent party in power with a new person, even after relatively successful and popular presidents like Eisenhower, Clinton and Obama, is extremely rare.
 


“And the plane carrying Witkoff and Kushner departing Miami, is now en route to Washington instead of Islamabad.

Something fell apart.”
 
Mulberry Heel said:
And, imo, it won't end when Trump leaves office. It's going to take a major effort and many years over several administrations to win back what Trump is losing. Because the simple fact is that after America dumped Trump in 2020 (barely), we were dumb enough to elect him again in 2024 with a popular vote plurality. And even if the Democrats win in 2026 and 2028 and regain control of the government every other nation is going to be thinking "If they were stupid enough to elect Trump twice, they may just elect another MAGA idiot in 2032 or 2036 and this will start all over again." So it's going to be a much harder sell to foreign governments to get them to trust us again for a good while. I don't envy any Democratic POTUS in 2029 trying to convince foreign leaders that MAGA is really finished and won't be back, and so our traditional allies need to trust us again and start working us as they did before.
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There's no question about it. 'Murica is not trustworthy and is on notice for at least a decade on the international scene. Our financial, rhetorical, and moral currency have been trashed. Ironically, Trump has completely obliterated Reagan's Shining City on the Hill vision. In fact, the Reagan WH put Trump on IGNORE back in 1987...and as we know, Trump commits retribution even on the dead and retired.
 
superrific said:
Is it just me, or does it seem like foreign policy is being made on the fly by the memers, on both sides?

That JD Vance in the field image -- what's the point of that? It seems inflammatory by design with no evident purposes, which is to say it's an internet flame, which is fine but really is this war being conducted by AI animators?
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Trump administration idiocy is being trolled by Iran. Trump has insulted their dignity. And he can't be trusted. The Iranians/Persians are a proud people. If there were any adults in Trump's sphere they would be well advised to pick up some history books.

Know your enemy.



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heelinhell said:
Obama reached a deal with Iran that was working, but it took two years of building support with our allies, thoughtful planning how we approached the negotiations, and refraining from bombing them or threatening to wipe out their entire entire civilization if they did not bend to our will.

I'm hoping we elect another savvy, intelligent, and informed president like Obama in 2028 who could reestablish something similar to the JCPOA, but it might require a 2nd term for that president to get such a deal.
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Actual Work - a concept foreign to Trump.
 
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