Is the Age of Revolution Over?

[MendotoManteo]

I've thought about this for a while. Finally saw people posting about it this week on social media. I guess the inauguration got them in the mood.

But what I mean is this: with AI perfecting itself (and I put it that way intentionally), how you gonna revolt? At least in developed, advanced countries.

Of course there's been a number of socialist revolutions, but I'll go to Russia as the exemplar (Paris Commune aside). As I told someone last week over beers, people were literally eating people. That aside, and here's the crux, the revolutionaries had weapons and tech equivalent to their oppressors. That's no longer the case. The state is so asymmetrically powerful now.

I have a lot of thoughts, but to avoid ranting, what say ye? Is revolution still possible? If so, then for how long?

 

[MendotoManteo]

Whatcha' gonna do when that perfected robot dog is after ya? Your dog ain't gonna be able to handle it. Your gun will mostly be useless, other than maybe shotgun close to its head.

I mean, this is something to think about. Especially with Elon being our president now.

 

[Paine]

Smarter people than me are considering this question, but I’ll say: I think there have been greater discrepancies between the proles and the bourgeois than there are now and things have advanced.

This isn’t to say we can just sit and wait for things to happen. The main thing that must be confronted before we even consider reform or revolution is the matter of cultural hegemony. Gramsci needs to be required reading for people who want to move towards a more egalitarian world.

In other words: “The future’s here, we are it, we are on our own.”

 

[McAdooSmackinYou]

lol where do y’all find these clowns?

 

[StrangePackage]

lol where do y’all find these clowns?

You'll need to be gentle with this one. He winges to the mods.

 

[SnoopRob]

I've thought about this for a while. Finally saw people posting about it this week on social media. I guess the inauguration got them in the mood.

But what I mean is this: with AI perfecting itself (and I put it that way intentionally), how you gonna revolt? At least in developed, advanced countries.

Of course there's been a number of socialist revolutions, but I'll go to Russia as the exemplar (Paris Commune aside). As I told someone last week over beers, people were literally eating people. That aside, and here's the crux, the revolutionaries had weapons and tech equivalent to their oppressors. That's no longer the case. The state is so asymmetrically powerful now.

I have a lot of thoughts, but to avoid ranting, what say ye? Is revolution still possible? If so, then for how long?

The state and/or the wealthy have always had significant advantages over revolutionaries...that's why successful revolutions are not terribly common. There are always folks fairly dissatisfied with how things are going.

Revolutions don't require symmetrical weapons, they require being able to create enough problems that the state/wealthy are forced to compromise. That can - and often is - carried our via work stoppages and targeted violence (often via guerilla warfare or assassinations) and generally disrupting the system to a significant enough extent that the demands of those revolting must be heard and addressed.

For instance, in our current world where technology is so key to the functioning of society, targeting technological infrastructure would be a key way to disrupt the system. That wouldn't be done by groups of armed people going against police or the military, but instead by hackers trying to take down crucial IT systems or by small groups of revolutions attacking crucial pieces of physical IT infrastructure.

Revolution is still possible, but it would certainly be done differently than in previous revolutions. But that has been true throughout history as different periods have different systems with various features that lead to different types of revolutions.

 

[Bobfripp]

The "revolution" was defeated on November 5th.

The woke ideology, globalism, open borders, DEI BS, lawfare against your political opponent etc..... was voted OUT.

So far President Trump has ended the Bush Regime, Clinton Regime, McCain Regime, Romney/Ryan RINO Party, Obama Regime 1,2 and 3.

He also took any credibility drunk Nancy ever thought she had by exposing her and the January 6th joke of an investigation.

So if you want to look at the scoreboard the "Revolution" is over. There were back and forth battles for the last 8 years but the GOP won. And won handily.

Sieg Heil, Parteigenosse!

 

[nycfan]

LOL.....

My, my how funny it is when the rabbit is the one with the gun.

The ZZLP of old that banned every single poster that didn't goose step with the group now resorts to "super banning" any and all opinions that disagree with their Marxist ideology.

Quite telling of the "tolerant/big tent" party left.

Never has there been a bigger, bolder, smug, condescending party of hypocrites like today's Democrat Party. What's even more telling is the fact that they have refused to admit that their ideas and what they stand for are not what America wants.

They are void of any self-realization and it will continue to haunt them until they return to normal.

Good luck with that.

Thanks for dropping by to troll and misidentify people making individual choices how to ignore a bad faith troll as banning.

 

[1moretimeagain]

Don’t let hesnothere derail the thread with off-topic comments

MOD EDIT- Or any other thread, for that matter.

 

[MendotoManteo]

[MOD EDIT — no need to respond to this poster anymore]

 

[MendotoManteo]

Smarter people than me are considering this question, but I’ll say: I think there have been greater discrepancies between the proles and the bourgeois than there are now and things have advanced.

This isn’t to say we can just sit and wait for things to happen. The main thing that must be confronted before we even consider reform or revolution is the matter of cultural hegemony. Gramsci needs to be required reading for people who want to move towards a more egalitarian world.

In other words: “The future’s here, we are it, we are on our own.”

If I'm not badly mistaken, Gramsci's birthday was this past week. 100 or something another.

Hegemony is something else, I tell ya. As you well know. Something I've tried explaining to others about, say, the Soviet system, is that it's so obvert because it had to be. It seemed so heavy-handed, because it had to be. Default is not egalitarianism. (And I don't pretend to think the USSR, especially after Lenin and the Revolution was that.) Default is hierarchy, which is I guess what rich man ass lickers like that other guy in the thread above get off to.

When you take a simple stroll down the street with your lovely, you're being indoctrinated. The shop signs. The window displays. This is how we should live and be. Spend and be merry. You'll notice the commercials for football these past few years portray extravagant homes as if it's typical middle class American living. We're always being indoctrinated. They just don't have to be so harsh about it because they're not creating a new culture. It's just the way things are, with uneducated human beings.

And I probably missed half the things you stated, but regarding revolution: before modernity, it was impossible. Because of the asymmetry. There was a period there in modernity, and perhaps it's still here, where it became possible. I fear we're going back to that premodern relationship of men, tools, and other things.

 

[dukeman92]

I definitely feel as though we’re headed towards some type of conflict. The folks in charge right now cannot be left unchecked for four years. Our country will be unrecognizable.

 

[Paine]

If I'm not badly mistaken, Gramsci's birthday was this past week. 100 or something another.

Hegemony is something else, I tell ya. As you well know. Something I've tried explaining to others about, say, the Soviet system, is that it's so obvert because it had to be. It seemed so heavy-handed, because it had to be. Default is not egalitarianism. (And I don't pretend to think the USSR, especially after Lenin and the Revolution was that.) Default is hierarchy, which is I guess what rich man ass lickers like that other guy in the thread above get off to.

When you take a simple stroll down the street with your lovely, you're being indoctrinated. The shop signs. The window displays. This is how we should live and be. Spend and be merry. You'll notice the commercials for football these past few years portray extravagant homes as if it's typical middle class American living. We're always being indoctrinated. They just don't have to be so harsh about it because they're not creating a new culture. It's just the way things are, with uneducated human beings.

And I probably missed half the things you stated, but regarding revolution: before modernity, it was impossible. Because of the asymmetry. There was a period there in modernity, and perhaps it's still here, where it became possible. I fear we're going back to that premodern relationship of men, tools, and other things.

I tend to think that it is still possible but will look different than it has in the past. While we are regressing, there are still fragments of Enlightenment ideals that are latent within the American mind.

Reasonable people can disagree, but I also think that these ideals are fundamental to human nature. Perhaps I’m just telling myself that to keep from going crazy though.

Interesting article on the topic here: What Does Revolution Mean in the 21st Century?

 

[MendotoManteo]

I tend to think that it is still possible but will look different than it has in the past. While we are regressing, there are still fragments of Enlightenment ideals that are latent within the American mind.

Reasonable people can disagree, but I also think that these ideals are fundamental to human nature. Perhaps I’m just telling myself that to keep from going crazy though.

Interesting article on the topic here: What Does Revolution Mean in the 21st Century?

You're a feeler, much like myself. I feel you.

But this isn't the point. Will it be possible, given the extreme discrepancies between the weapons the state/wealthy own and the weapons we own? That's what I'm saying.

I didn't bring up the robot AI dog earlier for no reason. Your dog, my dog, won't be able to compete. And I have a big dog, but he won't be able to do anything against metal.

It is skewing so asymmetrical (I hate to keep using that word, but only one I have). This isn't the age of rifles, like 1800s-early 1900s, when most of the revolutions occurred in Europe. And we're talking about advanced countries here.

 

[MendotoManteo]

As dumb as it may sound, I suppose The Matrix gives us some sort of sign. But that was without AI. Didn't even understand it, if I remember correctly.

Larry Ellison, or whatever that dickhead's name is, said earlier this week that we'll have well-behaved societies soon.

What do ya'll think he means by that? I think I know.

It seems to me there was a relatively brief moment in human history, beginning with modernity, that allowed for true revolution. I think that era has closed, sadly.

 

[Paine]

You're a feeler, much like myself. I feel you.

But this isn't the point. Will it be possible, given the extreme discrepancies between the weapons the state/wealthy own and the weapons we own? That's what I'm saying.

I didn't bring up the robot AI dog earlier for no reason. Your dog, my dog, won't be able to compete. And I have a big dog, but he won't be able to do anything against metal.

It is skewing so asymmetrical (I hate to keep using that word, but only one I have). This isn't the age of rifles, like 1800s-early 1900s, when most of the revolutions occurred in Europe. And we're talking about advanced countries here.

It’s a good question, a fundamental question. I come back to the fact that the revolutions that occurred in the past have also occurred under circumstances that men saw as impossible.

Marx is criticized for not describing how a communist society would function, but there is a good reason for this that he takes great care to write about. He wasn’t at all interested in circumscribing how human existence would look under communism precisely because it would be an alien world unrecognizable to humans under capitalism.

It very well could be the case that the age of revolution as we have known it has come to an end. But does this close the door to the possibility of different kinds of revolution? I think, and hope, the answer is no.

Just as technological progress has made repression easier, it could very well be the undoing of our masters. Like Marx, I don’t want to circumscribe the future.

 

[MendotoManteo]

It’s a good question, a fundamental question. I come back to the fact that the revolutions that occurred in the past have also occurred under circumstances that men saw as impossible.

Marx is criticized for not describing how a communist society would function, but there is a good reason for this that he takes great care to write about. He wasn’t at all interested in circumscribing how human existence would look under communism precisely because it would be an alien world unrecognizable to humans under capitalism.

It very well could be the case that the age of revolution as we have known it has come to an end. But does this close the door to the possibility of different kinds of revolution? I think, and hope, the answer is no.

Just as technological progress has made repression easier, it could very well be the undoing of our masters. Like Marx, I don’t want to circumscribe the future.

I like your jib, bud. You're a real dude. By the way, I'm 40. I asked you your age in the American Values thread, I believe. You're idealistic. I like that.

I'm watching Sicario right now. Warehouse guys at my company had it on couple months back. I just thought it was a run-of-the-mill "shoot 'em up." But it's pretty damn good.

I wonder if that's the direction we're heading, despite all the big talk about immigration and the border and what not. Because this guy going to try to privatize everything for his buddies. That's what he was getting at yesterday with FEMA.

There may come a day we see headless bodies hanging from bypasses. I can see it.

And that MAGA bunch won't learn a damn thing. It's precisely because of the "administrative state" that we've avoided such things here, at least in the past century or so. But dumbasses will be dumbasses.

 

[Paine]

I like your jib, bud. You're a real dude. By the way, I'm 40. I asked you your age in the American Values thread, I believe. You're idealistic. I like that.

I'm watching Sicario right now. Warehouse guys at my company had it on couple months back. I just thought it was a run-of-the-mill "shoot 'em up." But it's pretty damn good.

I wonder if that's the direction we're heading, despite all the big talk about immigration and the border and what not. Because this guy going to try to privatize everything for his buddies. That's what he was getting at yesterday with FEMA.

There may come a day we see headless bodies hanging from bypasses. I can see it.

And that MAGA bunch won't learn a damn thing. It's precisely because of the "administrative state" that we've avoided such things here, at least in the past century or so. But dumbasses will be dumbasses.

Without a doubt. I’m scared about the future under MAGA. I’m trying to not let that fear rule my life. Keep yourself open to the possibilities of an alternative that is currently unforeseen.

Again, like I said, not to just sit and wait for something to happen. The assertion that capitalism would inevitably collapse under its own weight was more of an aspiration by the early scientific socialists than anything. But it was useful for keeping hope alive. That essence of hope, for a better future, was crucial to the revolutionary spirit.

If there’s one thing I try to do it’s keep that hope and optimism alive. Having that hope is a revolutionary act in and of itself. In 2025, joy is resistance.

 

[wmheel1287]

Without a doubt. I’m scared about the future under MAGA. I’m trying to not let that fear rule my life. Keep yourself open to the possibilities of an alternative that is currently unforeseen.

Again, like I said, not to just sit and wait for something to happen. The assertion that capitalism would inevitably collapse under its own weight was more of an aspiration by the early scientific socialists than anything. But it was useful for keeping hope alive. That essence of hope, for a better future, was crucial to the revolutionary spirit.

If there’s one thing I try to do it’s keep that hope and optimism alive. Having that hope is a revolutionary act in and of itself. In 2025, joy is resistance.

Is it your hope that capitalism does collapse?

 

[Paine]

Is it your hope that capitalism does collapse?

No, I think an outright collapse of capitalism in 2025 would bring a mess of immiseration. It is thoroughly embedded in a way that it wasn’t at the time scientific socialism emerged.

That’s why it’s crucial that we undergo a revolutionary consciousness altering about the possibilities for future existence. Right now, people can’t even imagine alternatives to capitalism, let alone construct a system to actually challenge it in a substantive way.

The power dynamics that exist under capitalism are fundamentally counter to how I think about human freedom. I want those to collapse, but there must be an alternative that doesn’t leave us worse off. Thus the invocation of Gramsci.

If capitalism collapsed today, it would be much more likely to yield to a fascistic hell. A counter-hegemony must be purposely cultivated.