Is the Age of Revolution Over?

We are firmly in the disinformation age. It's going to stress society in ways that are not reversible. Pre world war stuff, but now with enough nukes on the planet to end all life a few times over.
 
MendotoManteo said:
As dumb as it may sound, I suppose The Matrix gives us some sort of sign. But that was without AI. Didn't even understand it, if I remember correctly.
Click to expand...
I actually thought about The Matrix when I made my earlier reply. While fiction, it is somewhere along the lines of a world with AI embedded everywhere.

In The Matrix, though, they were well beyond where we are with AI, as the machines in that world had become fully sentient and capable of creating new programs/machines/people by themselves.
 
Paine said:
That’s why it’s crucial that we undergo a revolutionary consciousness altering about the possibilities for future existence. Right now, people can’t even imagine alternatives to capitalism, let alone construct a system to actually challenge it in a substantive way.
Click to expand...
That depends on what you mean by "capitalism." It's a much abused term, across the political spectrum.
 
MendotoManteo said:
Whatcha' gonna do when that perfected robot dog is after ya? Your dog ain't gonna be able to handle it. Your gun will mostly be useless, other than maybe shotgun close to its head.

I mean, this is something to think about. Especially with Elon being our president now.
Click to expand...

altmin said:
We are firmly in the disinformation age. It's going to stress society in ways that are not reversible. Pre world war stuff, but now with enough nukes on the planet to end all life a few times over.
Click to expand...
But we also have many more outlets for truth
 
MendotoManteo said:
Whatcha' gonna do when that perfected robot dog is after ya? Your dog ain't gonna be able to handle it. Your gun will mostly be useless, other than maybe shotgun close to its head.

I mean, this is something to think about. Especially with Elon being our president now.
Click to expand...
I like my odds vs robot dog for at least 10 years, based on what I’ve seen and experienced, especially considering battery constraints. Assuming no nukes attached. Alaska anyone?

Drone swarm concerns me more.

Terminator series needs a prequel.
 
superrific said:
That depends on what you mean by "capitalism." It's a much abused term, across the political spectrum.
Click to expand...
I’m a Marxist, so I approach the question from Marx’s understanding of capitalism: a system that orders social production primarily based on private ownership and class subjugation. Value begetting more value.

I’m not interested in arguing about people’s various definitions of capitalism.
 
Paine said:
I’m a Marxist, so I approach the question from Marx’s understanding of capitalism: a system that orders social production primarily based on private ownership and class subjugation. Value begetting more value.

I’m not interested in arguing about people’s various definitions of capitalism.
Click to expand...
1. Why would you take from Marx when there are plenty of other more contemporary sources that are more learned? I like Marx just fine. I'm not remotely a Marxist and have never been; I think he was a perspicacious critic and initiated a discourse in philosophy that was fruitful so long as it remained philosophy. Still, there are other theorists who have insights better suited to our world.

2. You say that we can't even imagine a world different than capitalism -- but if you're using that definition of capitalism, then we don't have to imagine because we are already living it. The Marxist view of capitalism requires commodification and alienation of labor. Even in its time, that was an incomplete account of economics. It bears little resemblance to the economy in which we live today.

There is no place in Marxist theory -- none that I know of, at least -- for management, or what Galbraith called the technocracy. In today's economy, about 30% of so of people work in managerial roles.

There is also little place in Marx's theory for technological development. Look at your definition and tell me how it applies to the largest companies in the world, like Google, Apple, Meta, TSM, NVidia. Where is the class subjugation there? What would class subjugation even look like?
 
superrific said:
1. Why would you take from Marx when there are plenty of other more contemporary sources that are more learned? I like Marx just fine. I'm not remotely a Marxist and have never been; I think he was a perspicacious critic and initiated a discourse in philosophy that was fruitful so long as it remained philosophy. Still, there are other theorists who have insights better suited to our world.

2. You say that we can't even imagine a world different than capitalism -- but if you're using that definition of capitalism, then we don't have to imagine because we are already living it. The Marxist view of capitalism requires commodification and alienation of labor. Even in its time, that was an incomplete account of economics. It bears little resemblance to the economy in which we live today.

There is no place in Marxist theory -- none that I know of, at least -- for management, or what Galbraith called the technocracy. In today's economy, about 30% of so of people work in managerial roles.

There is also little place in Marx's theory for technological development. Look at your definition and tell me how it applies to the largest companies in the world, like Google, Apple, Meta, TSM, NVidia. Where is the class subjugation there? What would class subjugation even look like?
Click to expand...
Again, I’m not at all interested in arguing with you about this. Especially not on this thread.

I’ll just say: to be a Marxist in the 21st century doesn’t preclude one from acknowledging and taking from other economists. Marx’s critique of capitalism is still relevant considering many modern economists continue to make the claims that Marx critiqued.

Perhaps more importantly, it is a framework for guiding political thought and action.

Your response also fails to acknowledge how Marxian economists have built upon and updated Marx’s original work up until the present day. Unlike other economists, Marx’s work (and that of other Marxian economists) is not a canon that one simply looks back on and applies. It is a living and evolving body of work that is constantly reassessed as capitalism morphs and shifts.

Capital continues to be one of the most useful frameworks for understanding capitalism. It doesn’t mean it is dogmatically applied to every situation without update.
 
Last edited:
altmin said:
We are firmly in the disinformation age. It's going to stress society in ways that are not reversible. Pre world war stuff, but now with enough nukes on the planet to end all life a few times over.
Click to expand...
I’d also add that addiction to social media leads to a barrage of 24/7 propaganda, whereas people in the pre world war era consistently received breaks from it.
 
ColdBlueSteel said:
But we also have many more outlets for truth
Click to expand...
For now, yes. But one of the dangers of most writing being done by ai chat bots moving forward, along with a rise in AI image and, eventually, footage creation means that outlets for truth will dwindle, if the Musk’s of the world remain in charge of the digital sphere.
 
Obviously we need to outlaw computers and other thinking machines and rely on sandworm funk to guide us in interstellar travel.. duh!
 
We now live in world with populations that are aging significantly with declining birthrates (other than in Africa and India) and this trend will continue for a while. Hard to have revolutions with dynamics like this, let alone ones that can succeed.

Furthermore we live in an era where energy prices are now higher, as are interest rates. Before we get to a revival of manufacturing in America, there will be a revival most likely in the distribution of goods around America. I've been predicting that Mom & Pop economics could return in this world because marginal price shocks just hurt larger distribution channels naturally. There is a good chance the big box retailers like Targets / Wal-Marts (maybe even Amazon.com) will begin to move towards a prolonged decline, possible even death. Trump will accelerate this process with tariffs on China, which like I said, opens up the opportunity for the opposite trend, which also would be good for labor too (more small business = higher bargaining power for workers).
 
AlbionAmerican said:
. I've been predicting that Mom & Pop economics could return in this world because marginal price shocks just hurt larger distribution channels naturally. There is a good chance the big box retailers like Targets / Wal-Marts (maybe even Amazon.com) will begin to move towards a prolonged decline, possible even death.
Click to expand...
That would be nice
 
sringwal said:
I’d also add that addiction to social media leads to a barrage of 24/7 propaganda, whereas people in the pre world war era consistently received breaks from it.
Click to expand...
Most people will readily agree that social media and 24/7 news cycle is bad, but your point specifically is the root of why it’s so bad in my opinion.

The content/propaganda you find on social media itself is bad enough. The fact that everyone now has access to that content at their fingertips via smart phones and consumes it over and over again all day every day exacerbates the problem in ways that are hard to measure because it’s such a recent phenomenon. I would say smartphones became commonplace (in the sense that they are today where virtually everyone you know has one as their choice of personal cell phone, with very rare exceptions) around 2010, give or take. Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc. were around by that point and used by a lot of people, but I don’t remember them being used like they are today until the mid 2010s with the Cambridge Analytica stuff, and it’s steadily gotten worse.

It’s definitely disturbing when you step back and think about it. I’ll be the first to admit that I’m addicted to my phone and spend way too much time looking at all kinds of nonsense lol. Just grateful that I at least grew up, graduated college, and had started my career before smartphones took over in the way that they have now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top