Israel assaults Iran, pounds Lebanon, Hezbollah

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finesse said:
How close does it come to covering the 158 billion in direct military aid we've given them. That doesn't count what they made selling our stuff to the Chinese and who knows who else.

Do you think they'd quit guarding against the terrorists if we ended most of our support? Do you think they'd change (or could change) their government more than they have? If they would, are they the friends we need? What's really in it for us and not this specious rhetoric you and the other guy are spewing?
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They’d align with China or Russia instead, which would be terrible for us. There’s a reason support for Israel is bipartisan in Washington and has been for generations. People much more informed than you and I realize that it is in our best interests. But by all means, earmuffs…
 
America has been pretty good about letting Vietnamese relocate to the United States after 1975 and continue to do so today. And in exchange, Vietnamese people and their children have been and continue to be real assets to America. They have embraced our values and they work harder and study harder than Americans of European ancestry. They are the very embodiment of the supposed American ideal of prosperity through education and hard work. I personally believe America is a better place to live because of all the Vietnamese that have come here. Which Middle East country has stepped forward to allow Palestinians to settle in their countries, given them the opportunity to succeed, made their host country better the way America has done with Vietnamese?
 
finesse said:
How close does it come to covering the 158 billion in direct military aid we've given them. That doesn't count what they made selling our stuff to the Chinese and who knows who else.

Do you think they'd quit guarding against the terrorists if we ended most of our support? Do you think they'd change (or could change) their government more than they have? If they would, are they the friends we need? What's really in it for us and not this specious rhetoric you and the other guy are spewing?
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We get it - you don’t support Israel and the US supporting them. They are a democracy in a spot in the world that doesn’t have it. The costs are kind of made up. If we’ve learned anything over the last 5 years or so, the deficits and spending is just kind of made up.
 
05C40 said:
America has been pretty good about letting Vietnamese relocate to the United States after 1975 and continue to do so today. And in exchange, Vietnamese people and their children have been and continue to be real assets to America. They have embraced our values and they work harder and study harder than Americans of European ancestry. They are the very embodiment of the supposed American ideal of prosperity through education and hard work. I personally believe America is a better place to live because of all the Vietnamese that have come here. Which Middle East country has stepped forward to allow Palestinians to settle in their countries, given them the opportunity to succeed, made their host country better the way America has done with Vietnamese?
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This is where I challenge people (not you, or at least not here) to point out any wave of immigration that has ended up hurting the US as a whole. Sure, there were short term economic disruptions and social unrest, since we've never been short of xenophobes. But the lows led to higher highs. WE did the people and the skills they bring. Really wish we could revisit the whole guest worker idea, let it be the start of a screening process without the higher education of wealth to get a look and separate the whole immigration/drug enforcement issue.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
We get it - you don’t support Israel and the US supporting them. They are a democracy in a spot in the world that doesn’t have it. The costs are kind of made up. If we’ve learned anything over the last 5 years or so, the deficits and spending is just kind of made up.
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If you think Bibi is a democratic leader ,you were brainwashed a long time ago. You're still making stuff up.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Their values align closely with our own.
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That used to be true, but it stopped being true a while ago. Their values are sorta like ours on some issues. Now, I suppose if you're a MAGA and cruelty is the point for you, then you'd love Netanyahu, but in terms of the values of the average American and the national interest of the U.S., there isn't much overlap.

I am so done with Israel, which is becoming little more than a fundamentalist theocracy. A different theocracy than, say, Iran. Maybe a better one, but I don't like theocracies at all. Again, if you're a MAGA, theocracy is probably feature not bug, but I'm very happy with my political ideology of "do the right thing, not the thing that you think God or Karl Marx told you."
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
They’d align with China or Russia instead, which would be terrible for us. There’s a reason support for Israel is bipartisan in Washington and has been for generations. People much more informed than you and I realize that it is in our best interests. But by all means, earmuffs…
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The best interests of America are not why the US supports Israel. The weird belief structure of evangelical Christians is. To a lesser extent, it's because Jews outnumber Muslims. And also, Americans generally hate Muslims, far more than Jews.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
You could almost say that about any conflict (Ukraine, etc.). A country needs partners. You have to choose a side - bad or worse. If you don’t choose, when the worse folks come for you, which they will, then no one will help you.
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I am in favor of supporting Israel but comparing the complexity of issues in that conflict to Ukraine is complete and utter bullshit. Ukraine is the victim of an unprovoked attack based solely on one man’s ego and desire for imperialism. Israel has had a major part in creating the enemy they are fighting.
 
Yes. They're the size of New Jersey, so there's probably 10 countries that could turn them into a nuclear ruin and about 20 that could do it conventionally. It is smart. Not sure about someone who thinks that makes them GOAT. Running up up your record against the Little Sisters of the Poor isn't a big resume boost, either.
 
finesse said:
Yes. They're the size of New Jersey, so there's probably 10 countries that could turn them into a nuclear ruin and about 20 that could do it conventionally. It is smart. Not sure about someone who thinks that makes them GOAT. Running up up your record against the Little Sisters of the Poor isn't a big resume boost, either.
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It’s more that they have legit run through Hezbollah. People can say - well, what do you expect? Most would have not expected them to run the leaders so easily.
 
Okay, they can kick the crutches out from under cripples. Fits their current attitude ,anyway.

Look, they are renowned , and rightfully so, for their special operations. But would you put some of this fanboy BS aside and consider the civilian population and what the final outcome is. Right now, you're the Japanese bragging about how brilliant the Pearl Harbor attack was. You're both absolutely correct. We just don't know the outcome of this one.
 
In re Israeli military prowess: NC 24 runs between Camp Lejeune and Fayetteville, where the former Pope AFB was located. During the Yom Kippur War in October 1973 there was a steady, nearly bumper to bumper, stream of military vehicles from Camp Lejeune to Pope AFB. The US re-equipped, by air, the entire Israeli military after the Arab surprise attack had denuded the Israelis.amd left them vulnerable to destruction. The capability of the US airlift command was previously greatly underestimated by the Soviets and caused an entire top to bottom revision of Soviet plans for invading Europe. Israel can act recklessly and accept long odds because it knows the USA has it back.

But somehow this implicit faith in the US having its back did not stop Israel from accepting secrets about the US nuclear missile submarines from Jonathan Pollard and then selling those secrets to the Soviet Union in exchange for the Soviets allowing Jewish/Soviet nuclear weapons scientists to leave Russia and move to Israel. The US did not benefit from this betrayal by Israel.
 
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