Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies: 2K
  • Views: 79K
  • Politics 
When Israel took away hamas’ leverage by continuing with all this destruction, it left hamas with no way out of this situation in a sense. no way to save face. Given that these are two enemies that hate each other, what did anyone expect to happen here? Netanyahoo is as much to blame for their deaths as anyone. Definitely a bully who operates on an all or none principle, certainly not a politician or a political leader.

Regardless of who started what and when.
 
ZenMode said:
Even with your numbers, it doesn't change the overall picture. Israel, given the weapons at their disposal and given the population density of Gaza, could be easily killing thousands, if not tens of thousands, per day.
Click to expand...
They could also have much lower numbers if they used the precision weapons. The only reason they haven't killed more is because they don't want to the US to stop backing them.
 
RaiGuy said:
They could also have much lower numbers if they used the precision weapons. The only reason they haven't killed more is because they don't want to the US to stop backing them.
Click to expand...
They are using precision weapons. Precision weapons, when the enemy is using civilians and civilian buildings as protection, can only do so much.

"The only reason they haven't killed more is because they don't want to the US to stop backing them."

That's your opinion, not a fact. Israel has been attacked repeatedly. I don't recall seeing a past response that made me believe they aren't concerned about civilian deaths.
 
ZenMode said:
They are using precision weapons. Precision weapons, when the enemy is using civilians and civilian buildings as protection, can only do so much.

"The only reason they haven't killed more is because they don't want to the US to stop backing them."

That's your opinion, not a fact. Israel has been attacked repeatedly. I don't recall seeing a past response that made me believe they aren't concerned about civilian deaths.
Click to expand...
Have you seen the footage of the aftermath of one of their bombs? There is nothing precise about it. They are destroying city blocks and everything inside. Compare that with the attacks they did inside Lebanon and Syria where they bombed a single apartment while the building was still in tact. They want to maximize damage, both to structures and civilians.
 
RaiGuy said:
Have you seen the footage of the aftermath of one of their bombs? There is nothing precise about it. They are destroying city blocks and everything inside. Compare that with the attacks they did inside Lebanon and Syria where they bombed a single apartment while the building was still in tact. They want to maximize damage, both to structures and civilians.
Click to expand...
They can use precise bombs when they know precisely where someone is, as was the case when they killed the Hezbollah (?) guy in Iran when he was sitting in his room. That is the exception, not the rule in war.

Israel has been dropping thousands of leaflets warning people to leave certain areas. They're sending texts and voice messages and posting maps on social media to evacuate people from areas where they'll be bombing.

As I said earlier, civilian deaths (how ever many have happened) are terrible, but the expectations on Israel are completely unrealistic given the situation they are in.
 
RaiGuy said:
Here is a link from February from a research group in London about the bombing: Forensic Architecture. Basically, they are stating that without more evidence, it is inconclusive, but Israel did spread disinformation immediately after the attack.

I also don't get why you are fixated by one questionable incident (in which you STILL haven't answered why they don't allow outside investigators), and you justify Israel destroying all the other hospitals because you believe the bullshit that Hamas uses all of them.
Click to expand...

Outside investigators weren’t allowed because Israel wasn’t in control of the hospital at the time; Hamas was.

Hamas using hospitals, schools, and residential facilities for military purposes isn’t bullshit. It has been well documented for years, even by the UN.
 
4thgenheel said:
you really think that hamas is that much more cunning and strategic than apparently wildly reckless, incompetent mossad/IDF/israel?

tehran is just one example. again, try to extrapolate the events there and in other mossad actions.

mossad/idf/israel are capable of much more precision than what they're showing in gaza. they just don't care about palestinians. the casualties are the point. they want beach front condos for israelis in gaza and palestinian people gone.
Click to expand...

I think that Hamas is cunning in how it uses civilians as human shields and as martyrs for its propaganda war. It has admitted as much. You can’t wage a war in a dense urban environment and in which the enemy is attempting to kill as many of its own civilians as possible with zero civilian casualties. That simply isn’t possible in warfare. It never has been. That’s akin to asking the trauma surgeon to save 100% of his patients.
 
RaiGuy said:
Have you seen the footage of the aftermath of one of their bombs? There is nothing precise about it. They are destroying city blocks and everything inside. Compare that with the attacks they did inside Lebanon and Syria where they bombed a single apartment while the building was still in tact. They want to maximize damage, both to structures and civilians.
Click to expand...
The size of the munition depends on the objective. If there is a base in the basement, you gonna need a bomb that can penetrative there. A single apartment would be simple.
 
ZenMode said:
They can use precise bombs when they know precisely where someone is, as was the case when they killed the Hezbollah (?) guy in Iran when he was sitting in his room. That is the exception, not the rule in war.

Israel has been dropping thousands of leaflets warning people to leave certain areas. They're sending texts and voice messages and posting maps on social media to evacuate people from areas where they'll be bombing.

As I said earlier, civilian deaths (how ever many have happened) are terrible, but the expectations on Israel are completely unrealistic given the situation they are in.
Click to expand...
Lol, that's just for show. They tell people to leave to a safe area, then proceed to bomb them on their path to the safe area and then bomb the safe area.

Also, you say they sent texts and voice messages, yet before that, they cut off cell service and internet. How were people supposed to get those messages? All of that is just a show for people to think that they care for civilians.

What situation is unrealistic that they are in? They are literally destroying Gaza building by building. That has nothing to do with Hamas. Why do they destroy churches and mosques? You can't honestly believe that Hamas uses every damn building that Israel has demolished.
 
RaiGuy said:
Lol, that's just for show. They tell people to leave to a safe area, then proceed to bomb them on their path to the safe area and then bomb the safe area.

Also, you say they sent texts and voice messages, yet before that, they cut off cell service and internet. How were people supposed to get those messages? All of that is just a show for people to think that they care for civilians.

What situation is unrealistic that they are in? They are literally destroying Gaza building by building. That has nothing to do with Hamas. Why do they destroy churches and mosques? You can't honestly believe that Hamas uses every damn building that Israel has demolished.
Click to expand...

How do you destroy a tunnel while leaving the building directly above it unscathed?
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Outside investigators weren’t allowed because Israel wasn’t in control of the hospital at the time; Hamas was.

Hamas using hospitals, schools, and residential facilities for military purposes isn’t bullshit. It has been well documented for years, even by the UN.
Click to expand...
Investigators can still enter. Palestinians asked for them to enter as well. They wanted to give them access, but Israel blocked it.

So, are you telling me that Hamas used EVERY building Israel has demolished? Just because they allegedly used a hospital, does that greenlight every hospital? Every school? Every university? IF their intelligence is so good, they should know which ones are in use and which aren't. However, they don't care and are enjoying doing as much damage as they can (as evidenced by the Israeli soldiers posting videos of them demolishing mosques, schools, etc... and laughing about it).
 
RaiGuy said:
Investigators can still enter. Palestinians asked for them to enter as well. They wanted to give them access, but Israel blocked it.

So, are you telling me that Hamas used EVERY building Israel has demolished? Just because they allegedly used a hospital, does that greenlight every hospital? Every school? Every university? IF their intelligence is so good, they should know which ones are in use and which aren't. However, they don't care and are enjoying doing as much damage as they can (as evidenced by the Israeli soldiers posting videos of them demolishing mosques, schools, etc... and laughing about it).
Click to expand...

Why would Israel let foreigners enter an active war zone just to attempt to disprove a myth that was already conclusively debunked by every western intelligence service? That would simply give Israel another headache to worry about for no good reason.

Are you aware of any single military in the history of existence that could strike 100% of intended targets only with zero collateral damage? If so, please share.
 
RaiGuy said:
Lol, that's just for show. They tell people to leave to a safe area, then proceed to bomb them on their path to the safe area and then bomb the safe area.

Also, you say they sent texts and voice messages, yet before that, they cut off cell service and internet. How were people supposed to get those messages? All of that is just a show for people to think that they care for civilians.

What situation is unrealistic that they are in? They are literally destroying Gaza building by building. That has nothing to do with Hamas. Why do they destroy churches and mosques? You can't honestly believe that Hamas uses every damn building that Israel has demolished.
Click to expand...
You have a specific view of Israel. They're only being as careful as they are to keep getting money from the US. Anything they do to warn civilians is "for show". Like I said, the civilian death numbers don't reflect that they are indiscriminately bombing civilian areas. The numbers, given the population density, would be 100-1000x higher if that were the case.

You are welcome to your opinion of Israel and the motivation behind their actions, but it simply doesn't align with the math.
 
ZenMode said:
The numbers, given the population density, would be 100-1000x higher if that were the case.

You are welcome to your opinion of Israel and the motivation behind their actions, but it simply doesn't align with the math.
Click to expand...
LOL. This is the point in the thread where you really need to bow out. You know, when you start lecturing everyone about math when, uh,

About 2 million people live in Gaza. There have been roughly 50,000 deaths. 100x that amount would be 5 million deaths in a population of 2 million. 1000x that amount would be truly impressive -- 50 million people killed in a population of 2 million.

Population of Gaza aside, 50 million people killed would be on par with the total death count in WWII.

You should hide your head in a bag.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Not at all. A name change is not a change in leadership. Would you vote for Donald Trump if he changed his name to Kamala?
Click to expand...
So when you say “Hamas”, who do you mean specifically? The top guy? The top 100 guys? The top 10,000 guys?

I realize that’s not an easy question to answer but it seems reasonable to expect Netanyahu to outline specific endpoints as a condition of continued US support, especially in light of the absurdly high civilian casualties involved.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
So when you say “Hamas”, who do you mean specifically? The top guy? The top 100 guys? The top 10,000 guys?

I realize that’s not an easy question to answer but it seems reasonable to expect Netanyahu to outline specific endpoints as a condition of continued US support, especially in light of the absurdly high civilian casualties involved.
Click to expand...

Well, the top guy at this point is Sinwar and he absolutely has to go. As in, he must be killed. Even capturing him would be insufficient as it would likely cause more people to be kidnapped to be used as bargaining chips in order to secure his release. Similar with OBL for us.

Best case scenario is a demilitarized Gaza with some sort of provisional government in place and international peacekeepers. Hamas at the very least is completely disarmed. Given that Hamas has run nearly every facet of Gaza for going on two decades, it would be difficult if not impossible to find civilian leadership from Gaza that don't have at least some ties to Hamas. However, strict monitoring could help ensure that whatever governing body comes after Hamas is committed to nonviolence and rebuilding rather than the vengeance and terror that Hamas has been pushing for over a generation now. Pump in Marshall-plan type money but with actual oversight this time to ensure that it goes to rebuilding actual infrastructure rather than terror tunnels. Palestinians who have lived through this war and are seeing a potential future of first-world living conditions, prosperity and broader diplomatic recognition would likely be reluctant to throw that all away and resort to terror.
 
superrific said:
LOL. This is the point in the thread where you really need to bow out. You know, when you start lecturing everyone about math when, uh,

About 2 million people live in Gaza. There have been roughly 50,000 deaths. 100x that amount would be 5 million deaths in a population of 2 million. 1000x that amount would be truly impressive -- 50 million people killed in a population of 2 million.

Population of Gaza aside, 50 million people killed would be on par with the total death count in WWII.

You should hide your head in a bag.
Click to expand...
I'm going to assume you have no further input on the actual topic....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top