Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume

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TarSpiel said:
As opposed to you, who would ask us - over and over - to believe that 50,000 Palestinian deaths is evidence that the Israelis care about...[checks notes]...Palestinian civilians.
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66,000 Iraqis civilians died from 2004 to 2009. Guess we didn't care either?
 
tonman said:
66,000 Iraqis civilians died from 2004 to 2009. Guess we didn't care either?
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already addressed itt, a couple of pages back.

no, we didn't care and the loss of life was horrific. the architects of the iraq invasion/occupation are war criminals who should be in prison. cheney, rumsfeld, bush, powell, rice, bolton, etc.

just like bibi and ben gvir, etc. disgusting war criminals.

really odd that some of y'all think this is some sort of gotcha.
 
4thgenheel said:
already addressed itt, a couple of pages back.

no, we didn't care and the loss of life was horrific. the architects of the iraq invasion/occupation are war criminals who should be in prison. cheney, rumsfeld, bush, powell, rice, bolton, etc.

just like bibi and ben gvir, etc. disgusting war criminals.

really odd that some of y'all think this is some sort of gotcha.
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No it's war. You don't like it, don't wage it. Hamas looks like they enjoy it and they are the current governing body of Gaza.
 
tonman said:
No it's war. You don't like it, don't wage it. Hamas looks like they enjoy it and they are the current governing body of Gaza.
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Is that what you say about Oct 7th? Or are the deaths of over 200 Palestinians pre-Oct 7th that year not constitute a “war”?
 
tonman said:
No it's war. You don't like it, don't wage it. Hamas looks like they enjoy it and they are the current governing body of Gaza.
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hamas are terrorists. everyone treats them as such. "current governing body of gaza" is a massive stretch, the last election was nearly 18 years ago. they have very loose/unofficial "control" of a devastated area that is not safely inhabitable at this time.

israel/the idf don't behave any better than hamas but are supposed to be a civilized sovereign nation state.
 
tonman said:
66,000 Iraqis civilians died from 2004 to 2009. Guess we didn't care either?
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Most of those civilian deaths were Iraqis killing Iraqis after the US passed over prisoners and then turned a blind eye to what the Iraqis did to their countrymen. That's pretty terrible but it doesn't really apply to what Israel is doing today.

The US and their coalition partners killed about 8,000 civilian Iraqis in engagements like Israel is facing during the time period.

If you do the math, the US killed about 20% of the civilians in a time period that was about five times as long in a country with about 20 times the population of Gaza. So yes, I think the US cared a great deal more about civilian casualties than the genocidal murderers of Israel.
 
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RaiGuy said:
Is that what you say about Oct 7th? Or are the deaths of over 200 Palestinians pre-Oct 7th that year not constitute a “war”?
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You tell me. After Israel withdrew from Gaza, from 2001 to 2014, 20000 missiles were launched from Gaza into Israel. Fortunately the weapons were not very accurate. After Oct 7, estimate of 19000 missiles have been launched. Are u saying Israel should not respond?
 
TarSpiel said:
As opposed to you, who would ask us - over and over - to believe that 50,000 Palestinian deaths is evidence that the Israelis care about...[checks notes]...Palestinian civilians.
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Just pointing to a number (an inaccurate number in this case) doesn't mean it's automatically acceptable or unacceptable. There are wars where the numbers are much lower and wars where the number is much higher. The context is what determines what is or isn't acceptable.

We don't know how many civilians are dead because the Palestinian Health Ministry doesn't differentiate between civilians and combatants.

Yes, there is more reason to believe that Israel is very conscious of civilian deaths than there is to believe they are not. I've detailed those reasons in previous posts.
 
4thgenheel said:
hamas are terrorists. everyone treats them as such. "current governing body of gaza" is a massive stretch, the last election was nearly 18 years ago. they have very loose/unofficial "control" of a devastated area that is not safely inhabitable at this time.

israel/the idf don't behave any better than hamas but are supposed to be a civilized sovereign nation state.
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Yeah your last sentence is completely false. If the IDF didn't behave any better than Hamas, there wouldn't be a Palestinian alive now. If Hamas had the IDF's weaponry, the Holocaust 2.0 would have already taken place.
 
tonman said:
You tell me. After Israel withdrew from Gaza, from 2001 to 2014, 20000 missiles were launched from Gaza into Israel. Fortunately the weapons were not very accurate. After Oct 7, estimate of 19000 missiles have been launched. Are u saying Israel should not respond?
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Of course no sovereign state should allow a terrorist group along its border to launch thousands of missiles each year into its cities. Except for one. I wonder what makes that one different...
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Most of those civilian deaths were Iraqis killing Iraqis after the US passed over prisoners and then turned a blind eye to what the Iraqis did to their countrymen. That's pretty terrible but it doesn't really apply to what Israel is doing today.

The US and their coalition partners killed about 8,000 civilian Iraqis in engagements like Israel is facing during the time period.

If you do the math, the US killed about 20% of the civilians in a time period that was about five times as long in a country with about 20 times the population of Gaza. So yes, I think the US cared a great deal more about civilian casualties than the genocidal murderers of Israel.
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Amazing what happens when your enemy (the Iraqi military) doesn't try to hide behind civilians like Hamas does. Perhaps Hamas should take notes. The civilian deaths are on Hamas, not the IDF.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Yeah your last sentence is completely false. If the IDF didn't behave any better than Hamas, there wouldn't be a Palestinian alive now. If Hamas had the IDF's weaponry, the Holocaust 2.0 would have already taken place.
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i guess i get why you resort to throwing out fantasyland hypotheticals because here in reality the idf is no better than hamas.

your JCD'ing of the idf is gross and weird. they've committed and will continue to commit unspeakable atrocities.

and the holocaust comment is wild. wtf do you think is happening right now in gaza? nakba 2.0. its a Palestinian holocaust.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Amazing what happens when your enemy (the Iraqi military) doesn't try to hide behind civilians like Hamas does. Perhaps Hamas should take notes. The civilian deaths are on Hamas, not the IDF.
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Are you serious? After the initial operation ("Mission Accomplished"), we were fighting an insurgency for 8 years. I can assure you that those insurgents weren't wearing uniforms or staying away from civilians.
 
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