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Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
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  • Replies: 2K
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  • Politics 
farce said:
The Israelis claim they have to destroy Hamas. If that requires eradication of Palestinians in Gaza it appears they are fine with that. And you will be cheerleading the slaughter the whole way.
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What would your response have been on 10/8 if you were in charge of Israel?
 
farce said:
Germany and Japan had some degree of self-determination and a path to self rule. Gaza has none of that.
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Just because they don't have it now doesn't mean that it will impossible for them to get there. Hamas is the roadblock, just as the Nazis were in 1945. Get rid of them and you'll find that most people just want to be able to live their lives and will welcome foreign assistance in making that happen.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
What would your response have been on 10/8 if you were in charge of Israel?
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Not the wholesale destruction of every structure and all the infrastructure in Gaza. By eliminating any vision of a future recovery they have radicalized the next generation of Palestinians completely. I expect they will use that fact to justify killing all the children.
 
farce said:
Germany and Japan had some degree of self-determination and a path to self rule. Gaza has none of that.
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BlueCups “best case scenario” involves nothing about Palestinian self determination. Go figure.
 
farce said:
Not the wholesale destruction of every structure and all the infrastructure in Gaza. By eliminating any vision of a future recovery they have radicalized the next generation of Palestinians completely. I expect they will use that fact to justify killing all the children.
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Ok, but I asked what you would have done, not what you wouldn't have done.

Did we radicalize the Germans when we bombed Dresden? Or the Japanese after Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
 
RaiGuy said:
What would you do if you were a Palestinian all the other dates before and after? This shit didn’t start Oct 7th. It didn’t happen in a bubble.
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I certainly wouldn't have ran across the border and raped and slaughtered anyone I could find.

This didn't start on 10/7, but 10/7 marked a dramatic escalation in the way that 9/11 marked a dramatic escalation in the war between the United States and terror groups.
 
I'm not an Israeli leader or an allied diplomat. It's not my job to figure out what to do. But I can see what isn't working, as they can yet they persist. Their goal is to destroy Hamas, which is impossible. The only question is how many civilians will they kill in pursuit of an impossible goal?

The WWII analogies are false. Germany and Japan had powerful warmaking capabilities. Hamas has never had such acapacity.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
I certainly wouldn't have ran across the border and raped and slaughtered anyone I could find.

This didn't start on 10/7, but 10/7 marked a dramatic escalation in the way that 9/11 marked a dramatic escalation in the war between the United States and terror groups.
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And we fucked that up completely.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
I certainly wouldn't have ran across the border and raped and slaughtered anyone I could find.

This didn't start on 10/7, but 10/7 marked a dramatic escalation in the way that 9/11 marked a dramatic escalation in the war between the United States and terror groups.
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No mention of the killings, assaults, humiliations, and home demolitions Israel did to the Palestinians leading up to this?
 
farce said:
I'm not an Israeli leader or an allied diplomat. It's not my job to figure out what to do. But I can see what isn't working, as they can yet they persist. Their goal is to destroy Hamas, which is impossible. The only question is how many civilians will they kill in pursuit of an impossible goal?

The WWII analogies are false. Germany and Japan had powerful warmaking capabilities. Hamas has never had such acapacity.
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It may not be possible to destroy Hamas, but it is possible to weaken them to the point where they can never mount an attack like 10/7 again. And we may be close to that point now, if we aren't there already.
 
farce said:
And I realize I'm arguing with Bo, which is a waste of e everyone's time. I'm done.
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Sure, if you want to bow out of a respectful conversation because of a strange grudge you have been holding since 2010, that is your prerogative. I certainly won't waste my time if that is how you feel.
 
RaiGuy said:
No mention of the killings, assaults, humiliations, and home demolitions Israel did to the Palestinians leading up to this?
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Or the kidnappings, suicide bombings, and terrorist attacks that Palestinians did leading up to that? We can play chicken or the egg all day long. 10/7 was different. As is this response.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
It may not be possible to destroy Hamas, but it is possible to weaken them to the point where they can never mount an attack like 10/7 again. And we may be close to that point now, if we aren't there already.
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What about the fact that Netanyahu was keeping Hamas in power by funding them and helping delay elections?
 
RaiGuy said:
What about the fact that Netanyahu was keeping Hamas in power by funding them and helping delay elections?
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Certainly a mistake that he won't repeat. I highly doubt he thought that they were capable of something like 10/7. They had an unofficial arrangement....Hamas gets support and in return they don't do anything stupid. Hamas decided to scuttle that arrangement in a major way.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Or the kidnappings, suicide bombings, and terrorist attacks that Palestinians did leading up to that? We can play chicken or the egg all day long. 10/7 was different. As is this response.
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There were over 200 Palestinians killed last year pre-Oct 7th. The amount of violence was heavily slanted from one side.
 
RaiGuy said:
There were over 200 Palestinians killed last year pre-Oct 7th. The amount of violence was heavily slanted from one side.
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Most of whom were militants killed in military operations, and who were killed over the course of 10 months. That differs substantially from 1,000 civilians being murdered in one day and hundreds more kidnapped.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Most of whom were militants killed in military operations, and who were killed over the course of 10 months. That differs substantially from 1,000 civilians being murdered in one day and hundreds more kidnapped.
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That is 100% false. Most of them were in the West Bank. Also, if you’re talking about militants, ironically, the ratio of soldiers to civilians killed during Oct 7th is higher than everything Israel has done since. Yet, Israel doesn’t get any blame or pushback on their actions.
 
RaiGuy said:
That is 100% false. Most of them were in the West Bank. Also, if you’re talking about militants, ironically, the ratio of soldiers to civilians killed during Oct 7th is higher than everything Israel has done since. Yet, Israel doesn’t get any blame or pushback on their actions.
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What's the ratio of soldiers to civilians killed during October 7th? Do share.

The soldier/civilian fatality ratio in the Gaza War is one of the lowest in modern warfare, despite Hamas's efforts to the contrary.
 
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