I tend to stay away from this issue because I can’t think of a more complicated problem in international politics and I am only somewhat familiar with the history. That said, this post is pretty close to my feelings on the situation. I definitely feel compassion for the Palestinian people and support an immediate cease fire. I think the Palestinians need to purge Hamas from power. If I saw some kind of reasonably similar fervor in removing Hamas from the protesters and Palestinians as I do against Israel that would be a start. I know they generally don’t support Hamas, but they need to go farther than that. Netanyahu needs to go along with his right wing compatriots. I think the Palestinian supporters who threaten a sort of mutually assured destruction with Democrats by potentially withholding their votes which could result in Trump’s election are completely misguided. I won’t feel sorry for them if they contribute to a Trump presidency.
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Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume
- Thread starter nycfan
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Well no kidding. I thought it was pretty clear from the context of the conversation that I was referring to Arab states, but I guess I'll have to be more explicit about that next time.
A couple of points. The PLO, Hamas, and Hezbollah aren't *only* terrorist organizations. They have more militant wings, and less. All three have done significant things to confront poverty, lack of education, and infrastructure amongst their constituents. IMO it's important to keep that in mind, because a lot of Americans are simply ignorant about it, and think that those organizations came about solely to hurt people and break things. It's more complex.
Also, you wrote, "I don't think we should reward 60 years of terrorism," are you referring to 60 years of terrorism by Israel against the Palestinian people (shunting them into ghettos, subjecting them to random invasive searches, imprisonment as a form of intimidation, intentionally depriving gaza of basic services, etc?) If so, I agree with you, I don't want to reward Israel in that regard either.
heelslegup
Distinguished Member
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Neither side has the moral high ground here. Besides being an occupying power, Israel has never even bothered to respond to these Arab peach intiatives. The Netanyahu govt will never agree to a 2-state solution and anyone who aqrgues that has not been paying attention for the past 25-30 years.
End the current war, end the Israelu Occuations, Israel and Palestinans mutuaqlly recognize one another, same for Israel and remaing ARab states, insert robust internation al peackeeping force in WB and Gazxa, demilitarized Palestinian state, Israel gives up some land in WB or does land swaros with Palestinians
en.wikipedia.org
End the current war, end the Israelu Occuations, Israel and Palestinans mutuaqlly recognize one another, same for Israel and remaing ARab states, insert robust internation al peackeeping force in WB and Gazxa, demilitarized Palestinian state, Israel gives up some land in WB or does land swaros with Palestinians
Arab Peace Initiative - Wikipedia
heelslegup
Distinguished Member
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I should slightly amend my statement to say thaqt neither Israel nor Hamas is or has been on the moral high ground over the past couple of decades. About the only party which has is Abbas and the Palestinian Austority in the West Bank.
And yes the Middle East dpes get complicated. Some reminders of the Israel/Hamas relatiohnship over the decades. TLDR: It is about Isreal keeping the occupied West Bank.
en.wikipedia.org
And yes the Middle East dpes get complicated. Some reminders of the Israel/Hamas relatiohnship over the decades. TLDR: It is about Isreal keeping the occupied West Bank.
Israeli support for Hamas - Wikipedia
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A Family Flees and a Mother Mourns After Israeli Settlers Attack a Palestinian Village
Residents of the village in the Israeli-occupied West Bank say one Palestinian man was killed by rampaging settlers. Israel’s military confirmed the village was attacked.
They came into the village just past sundown, dozens of Israeli settlers wearing masks, dressed in dark clothes and armed with rocks, Kalashnikovs and M-16s, witnesses said.
A local resident, Muawiya al-Sidee, said his 13-year-old daughter was one of the first to spot them as she and her younger siblings were playing on Thursday in their front garden in the village of Jit, in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.
“‘Baba, settlers are coming!’” the girl screamed.
Mr. al-Sidee and his wife, who was breastfeeding their 2-year-old daughter at the time, piled their five children into their car and drove off just as the settlers reached their front door.
Seconds later, he said, the Israelis from the nearby Eli settlement smashed the windows of his family’s home and threw in three Molotov cocktails, burning rooms where, moments earlier, the family had gathered.
As the family fled, a call went out over mosque loudspeakers in the village of some 3,000 people, imploring young men to come out and defend against the rampaging settlers.
When Mr. al-Sidee returned hours later, after the settlers had withdrawn, he found the sofas in his house were charred husks and the overhead lamps had melted.
Elsewhere in the village, Rasheed al-Seda, 23, awoke when the call for defenders sounded from the mosques. He joined a group determined to defend the village, armed with nothing but stones.
It would cost him his life, his mother and the Palestinian Ministry of Health said.
The Israeli military confirmed the attack on the village.
UFB. The settlers launch attacks like this because they know the IDF or police are not going to try and protect the Palestinians.A Family Flees and a Mother Mourns After Israeli Settlers Attack a Palestinian Village
Residents of the village in the Israeli-occupied West Bank say one Palestinian man was killed by rampaging settlers. Israel’s military confirmed the village was attacked.www.nytimes.com
They came into the village just past sundown, dozens of Israeli settlers wearing masks, dressed in dark clothes and armed with rocks, Kalashnikovs and M-16s, witnesses said.
A local resident, Muawiya al-Sidee, said his 13-year-old daughter was one of the first to spot them as she and her younger siblings were playing on Thursday in their front garden in the village of Jit, in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.
“‘Baba, settlers are coming!’” the girl screamed.
Mr. al-Sidee and his wife, who was breastfeeding their 2-year-old daughter at the time, piled their five children into their car and drove off just as the settlers reached their front door.
Seconds later, he said, the Israelis from the nearby Eli settlement smashed the windows of his family’s home and threw in three Molotov cocktails, burning rooms where, moments earlier, the family had gathered.
As the family fled, a call went out over mosque loudspeakers in the village of some 3,000 people, imploring young men to come out and defend against the rampaging settlers.
When Mr. al-Sidee returned hours later, after the settlers had withdrawn, he found the sofas in his house were charred husks and the overhead lamps had melted.
Elsewhere in the village, Rasheed al-Seda, 23, awoke when the call for defenders sounded from the mosques. He joined a group determined to defend the village, armed with nothing but stones.
It would cost him his life, his mother and the Palestinian Ministry of Health said.
The Israeli military confirmed the attack on the village.
The story of the young man of 23 defending his village with stones reminds me of a famous picture.A Family Flees and a Mother Mourns After Israeli Settlers Attack a Palestinian Village
Residents of the village in the Israeli-occupied West Bank say one Palestinian man was killed by rampaging settlers. Israel’s military confirmed the village was attacked.
They came into the village just past sundown, dozens of Israeli settlers wearing masks, dressed in dark clothes and armed with rocks, Kalashnikovs and M-16s, witnesses said.
A local resident, Muawiya al-Sidee, said his 13-year-old daughter was one of the first to spot them as she and her younger siblings were playing on Thursday in their front garden in the village of Jit, in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.
“‘Baba, settlers are coming!’” the girl screamed.
Mr. al-Sidee and his wife, who was breastfeeding their 2-year-old daughter at the time, piled their five children into their car and drove off just as the settlers reached their front door.
Seconds later, he said, the Israelis from the nearby Eli settlement smashed the windows of his family’s home and threw in three Molotov cocktails, burning rooms where, moments earlier, the family had gathered.
As the family fled, a call went out over mosque loudspeakers in the village of some 3,000 people, imploring young men to come out and defend against the rampaging settlers.
When Mr. al-Sidee returned hours later, after the settlers had withdrawn, he found the sofas in his house were charred husks and the overhead lamps had melted.
Elsewhere in the village, Rasheed al-Seda, 23, awoke when the call for defenders sounded from the mosques. He joined a group determined to defend the village, armed with nothing but stones.
It would cost him his life, his mother and the Palestinian Ministry of Health said.
The Israeli military confirmed the attack on the village.
The Hungarian Uprising of 1956 was an attempt to overthrow the Russian backed puppet government of the country. For a while the uprising succeeded in larger cities like Budapest. However, the Russians sent in reinforcements and the uprising was crushed. There is a famous picture taken in Budapest of two young men throwing rocks at a Russian tank. Guess history does repeat itself.
2ManyBlueCups
Esteemed Member
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- 625
Didn’t the IDF arrest someone in connection with this murder? How many people has Hamas arrested due to their actions on 10/7? I do agree that the IDF should have been there to prevent this atrocity, however in wartime perhaps they were spread thin.A Family Flees and a Mother Mourns After Israeli Settlers Attack a Palestinian Village
Residents of the village in the Israeli-occupied West Bank say one Palestinian man was killed by rampaging settlers. Israel’s military confirmed the village was attacked.
They came into the village just past sundown, dozens of Israeli settlers wearing masks, dressed in dark clothes and armed with rocks, Kalashnikovs and M-16s, witnesses said.
A local resident, Muawiya al-Sidee, said his 13-year-old daughter was one of the first to spot them as she and her younger siblings were playing on Thursday in their front garden in the village of Jit, in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.
“‘Baba, settlers are coming!’” the girl screamed.
Mr. al-Sidee and his wife, who was breastfeeding their 2-year-old daughter at the time, piled their five children into their car and drove off just as the settlers reached their front door.
Seconds later, he said, the Israelis from the nearby Eli settlement smashed the windows of his family’s home and threw in three Molotov cocktails, burning rooms where, moments earlier, the family had gathered.
As the family fled, a call went out over mosque loudspeakers in the village of some 3,000 people, imploring young men to come out and defend against the rampaging settlers.
When Mr. al-Sidee returned hours later, after the settlers had withdrawn, he found the sofas in his house were charred husks and the overhead lamps had melted.
Elsewhere in the village, Rasheed al-Seda, 23, awoke when the call for defenders sounded from the mosques. He joined a group determined to defend the village, armed with nothing but stones.
It would cost him his life, his mother and the Palestinian Ministry of Health said.
The Israeli military confirmed the attack on the village.
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The IDF lets shit like this happen all the time. It has nothing at all to do with being "spread thin"
heelslegup
Distinguished Member
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- 496
Israeli settler attacks against Palestinians on the West Bank have occurred for decades. At times, they attack people like in this case. In other cases, they burn olive tree groves and propoerty. The whole point is to terrorize Palestinians and get them to leave so settlers can grab the land. On other occasions, the IDF has confliscated land and forced Palestinians to leave.
Netanyahu's long-stated goal has been to retain full Israeli control of the illegally occupoed West Bank and prevent estaqblishment of a Palestinian state there. This is not rocket science to understand.
Netanyahu's long-stated goal has been to retain full Israeli control of the illegally occupoed West Bank and prevent estaqblishment of a Palestinian state there. This is not rocket science to understand.
RaiGuy
Esteemed Member
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You do know that the IDF allows this to happen. They sit there and watch while the terrorist settlers do this. There are tons of videos online (many filmed by the settlers themselves) where they march right by the soldiers. Hamas is not moral, and neither is the IDF.
lawtig02
Inconceivable Member
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Would be a super BFD if this could get done by Thursday evening.
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Trump is probably on the phone with Bibi asking, "Why are you trying to fuck me over? Don't you know a ceasefire now helps Kamabla? What's more important, the lives of the hostages, Gaza Palestinians and IDF forces or me winning this election?"
Trump thinks he can tell Bibi to keep fighting with the same authority he can tell Speaker Johnson to scuttle the border bill.
StrangePackage
Iconic Member
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‘Everything is legitimate’: Israeli leaders defend soldiers accused of rape
Israeli society is divided over arrest of 10 soldiers for brutal gang rape of a Palestinian prisoner caught on video.
"Video has emerged of a gang rape of a Palestinian prisoner by guards at the Sde Teiman detention facility in the Negev desert, southern Israel.
The video, which has been verified by Al Jazeera, shows the prisoner being selected from a larger group lying bound on the floor. The victim is then escorted to a wall, where guards, using their shields to hide their identity from the camera, proceed to rape him.
The attack is believed to have been so brutal that, after he was transferred to hospital, Israeli media reported that the victim was unable to walk.
Ten soldiers were ultimately arrested for the rape on July 29, in a case that has rocked Israeli society. The soldiers belong to a unit known as Force 100, which is tasked with guarding the Sde Teiman facility, according to Haaretz.
Military prosecutors released three of the arrested soldiers on August 4, adding to the two previously released by investigators following a military court hearing in Kfar Yona on July 30, at which protesters gathered in support of the soldiers under arrest."
Has this been discussed at all? Seems like kind of a big deal.
RaiGuy
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I’ve linked the story before, but it must have gotten lost in the shuffle or ignored by others.‘Everything is legitimate’: Israeli leaders defend soldiers accused of rape
Israeli society is divided over arrest of 10 soldiers for brutal gang rape of a Palestinian prisoner caught on video.www.aljazeera.com
"Video has emerged of a gang rape of a Palestinian prisoner by guards at the Sde Teiman detention facility in the Negev desert, southern Israel.
The video, which has been verified by Al Jazeera, shows the prisoner being selected from a larger group lying bound on the floor. The victim is then escorted to a wall, where guards, using their shields to hide their identity from the camera, proceed to rape him.
The attack is believed to have been so brutal that, after he was transferred to hospital, Israeli media reported that the victim was unable to walk.
Ten soldiers were ultimately arrested for the rape on July 29, in a case that has rocked Israeli society. The soldiers belong to a unit known as Force 100, which is tasked with guarding the Sde Teiman facility, according to Haaretz.
Military prosecutors released three of the arrested soldiers on August 4, adding to the two previously released by investigators following a military court hearing in Kfar Yona on July 30, at which protesters gathered in support of the soldiers under arrest."
Has this been discussed at all? Seems like kind of a big deal.
You got to remember Rai, Israel has done so many bad things in Gaza to the Palestinians that it would be fairly easy for one more such incident to get lost in the chaos and madness.
Carolina Fever
Inconceivable Member
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I think if it wasn't for the outside world and media today that Isreal wouldn't have a problem with genocide of the Palestinians in Gaza.
2ManyBlueCups
Esteemed Member
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Israel is willing to negotiate. Hamas isn't. The best thing for Palestinians will be for Hamas to be destroyed, once and for all. Otherwise we'll just be back here again in five years.