Israel Hamas War, West Bank | Israel accuses Hamas of violating Cease Fire

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superrific said:
1. One of them received 10 years.
2. Do you think Abu Ghraib was a model to be followed?
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Right, the one who went to trial got 10 years.

I don't think anything about Abu Ghraib other than the sentences, for those who got a plea deal, were absolutely in line with the IDF soldier's deal.
 
ZenMode said:
Right, the one who went to trial got 10 years.

I don't think anything about Abu Ghraib other than the sentences, for those who got a plea deal, were absolutely in line with the IDF soldier's deal.
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That's because they didn't offer a plea deal to the ring leader. Which is what any organization should do.

Anyway, the situations were not the same. The cases against the soldiers were complicated by the existence of that torture memo saying that torture was OK as long as they didn't cause "severe mental or physical distress." This IDF guy was beating prisoners with a rifle while they were bound and blindfolded. There is no dispute about whether that is allowed. That is obvious mistreatment in breach of international law and it's not a close case.

AND, Abu Ghraib was not a model to follow. The clean-up was less of a whitewash than My Lai, but IIRC it was generally viewed unfavorably.
 

Rima I Anabtawi (@rimaanabtawi.bsky.social)

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Israeli strike destroys al-Ahli Baptist hospital, Gaza's last facility in the north​

The Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital is out of action after Israeli warplanes destroyed one of its buildings in the early hours of Sunday morning.


“… Since October 2023, Israel has systematically destroyed Gaza’s health infrastructure, wiping out 34 hospitals and leaving vast areas of the strip without access to emergency care.

The United Nations has warned of what it calls the "de-development" of Gaza’s healthcare system, a process it says appears deliberate. …”
 
nycfan said:

Rima I Anabtawi (@rimaanabtawi.bsky.social)

This post requires authentication to view.
bsky.app bsky.app

Israeli strike destroys al-Ahli Baptist hospital, Gaza's last facility in the north​

The Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital is out of action after Israeli warplanes destroyed one of its buildings in the early hours of Sunday morning.


“… Since October 2023, Israel has systematically destroyed Gaza’s health infrastructure, wiping out 34 hospitals and leaving vast areas of the strip without access to emergency care.

The United Nations has warned of what it calls the "de-development" of Gaza’s healthcare system, a process it says appears deliberate. …”
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Nothing to see here. All the hospitals were collateral damage because, you know, Hamas. Or wait, maybe it wasn’t Israel that did it? It was just random bombs from the sky. (Am I doing it right?)
 
StrangePackage said:
Imagine a job where you wrongly kill a dozen innocent people and all that happens is you get fired?
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Is there some reason that you left out that the Netenyahu administration's policy of state sponsored killing was illegal and grossly immoral?

Getting fired be damned, it was deeply wrong by virtually any metric.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Is there some reason that you left out that the Netenyahu administration's policy of state sponsored killing was illegal and grossly immoral?

Getting fired be damned, it was deeply wrong by virtually any metric.
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Exactly. It's literally murder and the fact that the only consequences are termination of employment for a single person is unconscionable. The consequences for all involved in this war crime should be substantially more severe.

It won't be tho, and that's a problem in and of itself.
 
StrangePackage said:
Exactly. It's literally murder and the fact that the only consequences are termination of employment for a single person is unconscionable. The consequences for all involved in this war crime should be substantially more severe.

It won't be tho, and that's a problem in and of itself.
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Leaving out the fundamental wrongness is a way of sanitizing the behavior- especially when it is listed alongside other activities which are in no way morally equivalent.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Leaving out the fundamental wrongness is a way of sanitizing the behavior- especially when it is listed alongside other activities which are in no way morally equivalent.
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I think putting them side by side with something so obviously inappropriate made the sarcasm apparent.

I'm sorry you missed very obvious sarcasm.
 


These are the types of admissions they wouldn’t make under the Biden Administration but feel free to make now because they won’t impact Trump’s support or create political pressure within his own party to pressure Bibi’s war cabinet in any way.

I think Biden did the right thing in coming to Israel’s aid after October 7 but I said at the time that he had to know that Bibi was an unreliable partner (and obviously he did know that). I thought the Biden Administration handled things pretty deftly for the first 6 plus months after the attack by Hamas — including putting Bibi on his back foot politically as Biden demonstrated how to make human contact with shell-shocked Israelis.

I’m not sure if Biden’s cognitive decline or his deeply rooted dedication to Israel blinded his later policy decisions (or both) — there became no good options as Hamas refused to give up the hostages and the IDF clearly had a different agenda. The Biden Administration sometimes tried and mostly failed at restraining Israel and the IDF as things ground on, though at least got a ceasefire for a time.

Now there are no restraints at all but I’m not entirely sure how much difference that is making in terms of outcomes for the average Palestinian.
 
nycfan said:
I’m not sure if Biden’s cognitive decline or his deeply rooted dedication to Israel blinded his later policy decisions (or both) — there became no good options as Hamas refused to give up the hostages and the IDF clearly had a different agenda. The Biden Administration sometimes tried and mostly failed at restraining Israel and the IDF as things ground on, though at least got a ceasefire for a time.
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What happened is that it became election year.

No American politician can afford to be seen as favoring a Muslim terrorist group over Israel. The reality doesn't matter -- the appearance is deadly. No American politician with national ambitions can be seen as favoring the interests of brown foreigners over white foreigners. And it's especially problematic because there have been so many Arab/Muslim bad guys in that conflict that ordinary Americans really can't keep up. They will see, "Biden is on the side of terrorists" and the election would have been over.

I don't think any Dem president of our lifetime would have acted differently than Biden did in this regard. Pub presidents would have been pulling the opposite way of course.
 
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