Israel Hamas War, West Bank Settler violence

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HintonJamesHeel said:
The dynamics that caused the attack on the Israeli hostages are still trending negatively for Palestinians. Saudis Arabia was close to embracing Israel before the attack and the global dynamics now don’t show Saudis Arabia is looking to oppose the Israel and the US. In fact, the alliance is growing closer.
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This is one of those horrible situations where two things can be true at the same time.

1. Hamas's attack was indefensible and outrageous on every possible ground. It can't be legitimized. That type of violent action can never be condoned. And yes, it has proven to be a cataclysmic mistake for the Palestinian population, and for Gazans in particular.

2. Hamas resorted to that inexcusable tactic because it felt desperate and isolated and was willing to take a massive risk in order to try to change a dynamic that was moving inextricably against the Palestinian people. Massive risks like that rarely work, and this one did not. And even if it had, it still wouldn't justify what they did.

But the point is that it should be no surprise the dynamics are trending negatively against the Palestinians. They were before the attack. They were right after the attack. They are now. It's a dynamic that has been trending this way for a long, long time, and that's a large part of the reason the attack happened in the first place.
 
It's a good thing Hamas/Jihadists/Muslims just want "their" land back, and don't want to wipe Jews off the face of the Earth, or this could be taken the wrong way....

‘We’ll burn Jews like Hitler did’, says BBC contributor in Gaza
A journalist who appears prominently on the BBC’s Arabic channel to report from Gaza called for Jews to be burned “as Hitler did”, it can be revealed.

Samer Elzaenen has appeared on BBC Arabic more than a dozen times since the conflict erupted following the October 7 Hamas attacks on southern Israel.

He reported live last month and his dispatches have included reports from the Nuseirat refugee camp in June last year, after an Israeli military operation to rescue four hostages, held by Hamas, led to hundreds of Palestinian deaths.

In a Facebook post in July 2022, he stated: “When things go awry for us, shoot the Jews, it fixes everything.”

Elzaenen has also appeared to call for a repeat of the Holocaust, stating on Facebook in May 2011: “My message to the Zionist Jews: We are going to take our land back, we love death for Allah’s sake the same way you love life. We shall burn you as Hitler did, but this time we won’t have a single one of you left.”

Elsewhere on social media, he has posted a hashtag stating: “#We Are All Hamas You Son of a Jewess”

www.yahoo.com

‘We’ll burn Jews like Hitler did’, says BBC contributor in Gaza

A journalist who appears prominently on the BBC’s Arabic channel to report from Gaza called for Jews to be burned “as Hitler did”, it can be revealed.
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
 
ZenMode said:
Elzaenen has also appeared to call for a repeat of the Holocaust, stating on Facebook in May 2011: “My message to the Zionist Jews: We are going to take our land back, we love death for Allah’s sake the same way you love life. We shall burn you as Hitler did, but this time we won’t have a single one of you left.”
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Come on. If you're going to be a Holocaust sympathizer, dude, get your facts straight. You have the whole internet at your disposal, and you think Hitler burned the Jews? Really? Never heard of the gas chambers?

I would also suggest that loving death for Allah's sake isn't a set of preferences that will lead to lasting power. I'd recommend that they shift focus. Less death for Allah, better management of working capital.
 
ZenMode said:
It's a good thing Hamas/Jihadists/Muslims just want "their" land back, and don't want to wipe Jews off the face of the Earth, or this could be taken the wrong way....

‘We’ll burn Jews like Hitler did’, says BBC contributor in Gaza
A journalist who appears prominently on the BBC’s Arabic channel to report from Gaza called for Jews to be burned “as Hitler did”, it can be revealed.

Samer Elzaenen has appeared on BBC Arabic more than a dozen times since the conflict erupted following the October 7 Hamas attacks on southern Israel.

He reported live last month and his dispatches have included reports from the Nuseirat refugee camp in June last year, after an Israeli military operation to rescue four hostages, held by Hamas, led to hundreds of Palestinian deaths.

In a Facebook post in July 2022, he stated: “When things go awry for us, shoot the Jews, it fixes everything.”

Elzaenen has also appeared to call for a repeat of the Holocaust, stating on Facebook in May 2011: “My message to the Zionist Jews: We are going to take our land back, we love death for Allah’s sake the same way you love life. We shall burn you as Hitler did, but this time we won’t have a single one of you left.”

Elsewhere on social media, he has posted a hashtag stating: “#We Are All Hamas You Son of a Jewess”

www.yahoo.com

‘We’ll burn Jews like Hitler did’, says BBC contributor in Gaza

A journalist who appears prominently on the BBC’s Arabic channel to report from Gaza called for Jews to be burned “as Hitler did”, it can be revealed.
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
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nice islamophobia!

obviously, this one random journalist doesn't represent all muslims.

meanwhile, there are people scattered all over the actual israeli government who say relatively comparable things about palestinians/muslims. ben gvir, smotrich, etc.
 
4thgenheel said:
obviously, this one random journalist doesn't represent all muslims.
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Well, duh. But he definitely does seem . . . a bit unhinged. And I'd be perfectly happy for the BBC to ban him for life over those comments.

Necessary qualifier: if that account of his facebook posts is correct. I don't ever take that sort of thing at face value any more.
 
superrific said:
Come on. If you're going to be a Holocaust sympathizer, dude, get your facts straight. You have the whole internet at your disposal, and you think Hitler burned the Jews? Really? Never heard of the gas chambers?
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First, ever heard of the ovens?
Second.... if that's your focus, you're missing the point.
superrific said:
I would also suggest that loving death for Allah's sake isn't a set of preferences that will lead to lasting power.
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Terrorists/Jihadists don't care. The life on Earth is meaningless in the overall scheme of things.
superrific said:
I'd recommend that they shift focus. Less death for Allah, better management of working capital.
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Religious extremism is a real thing.
 
4thgenheel said:
nice islamophobia!
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Islamophobia: “a word created by fascists, and used by cowards, to manipulate morons.”
4thgenheel said:
obviously, this one random journalist doesn't represent all muslims.
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Nearly 75% of Palestinians supported what Hamas did on October 7th.
4thgenheel said:
meanwhile, there are people scattered all over the actual israeli government who say relatively comparable things about palestinians/muslims. ben gvir, smotrich, etc.
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I doubt it. It's more likely they're talking about Hamas/terrorists/Jihadists...whom we should all want dead.
 
ZenMode said:
First, ever heard of the ovens?
Second.... if that's your focus, you're missing the point.
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1. The ovens weren't for killing. They were for burying.
2. My point was that he's both a dipshit and -- if we assume the social media posts are accurately portrayed -- a scumbag. As the scumbag part seems self-evident, I decided to poke at his dipshittery.
 
ZenMode said:
Islamophobia: “a word created by fascists, and used by cowards, to manipulate morons.”
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Do you say the same about antisemitism?

ZenMode said:
Nearly 75% of Palestinians supported what Hamas did on October 7th.
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Where did that number come from? They haven't allowed any outside media or investigators into Gaza, yet, they were able to send in a pollster to ask their opinion about October 7th?
 
duh, guys. zen is the final arbiter of what kinds of bigotry are real and legitimate.

and obviously polling that reinforces his preconceived notions is accurate.

never mind that nearly half of gazans are/were under the age of 18. those murderous little shits!
 
4thgenheel said:
duh, guys. zen is the final arbiter of what kinds of bigotry are real and legitimate.
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Not at all. I just recognize that portraying the issue with Muslim extremists/terrorists/Jihadists as an issue with Islam/Muslims overall is BS and meant, as I referenced above, to manipulate morons.
4thgenheel said:
and obviously polling that reinforces his preconceived notions is accurate.
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My notions are based on polling, not vice versa.
4thgenheel said:
never mind that nearly half of gazans are/were under the age of 18. those murderous little shits!
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Yep... war is ugly. Do you think Hamas has learned its lesson?

I don't.
 
Palestinians already live in a nightmare and it's hard to imagine it getting worse, but if Israel normalizes with the Syrians, the Lebanese and even more Gulf States, it will over the immediate term.
 
Batt Boy said:
Palestinians already live in a nightmare and it's hard to imagine it getting worse, but if Israel normalizes with the Syrians, the Lebanese and even more Gulf States, it will over the immediate term.
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I'm having a very hard time understanding how all of this could plausibly shake out. Hamas, Hezbollah, the PLO, the Houthis and the Assad regime in Syria have been linked to and supported in recent years by Iran, which is in turn supported by Russia. Al-Sharaa is Sunni, so it makes sense that he, to the extent he "controls" Syria, would link more with Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc. But all that does it take "Syria" out of the Iran column and put it in the Sunni column. I could see that being a good thing for Syria (except for the Alawites, but nobody is likely to have much sympathy for them), but doesn't it just make Iran that much more desperate? And the last thing Israel wants is increasingly desperate terrorist/political groups on its borders. So when does all this Abraham Accord stuff, which is great in theory, become too much for Israel to handle? And what happens when THAT happens?

Relatedly, what is Putin thinking about all of this? Iran is basically his vassal state and there's zero chance he's willing to give up his influence in the Middle East. But, at the same time Trump is kowtowing to the Saudis, the Qataris and the Emiratis, he's also fellating Putin at every opportunity. And all of that is being reciprocated tit-for-tat (pun intended). So how does Putin square this circle? What happens if Putin tells the Supreme Leader to blow up a dirty bomb in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem?

My biggest concern is that Trump thinks all of this can be solved by some combination of grift and the force of his personality. We may be about to see where narcissism intersects with global politics in a way that implodes all of the norms that have kept us off the nuclear brink since 1945.
 
lawtig02 said:
I'm having a very hard time understanding how all of this could plausibly shake out. Hamas, Hezbollah, the PLO, the Houthis and the Assad regime in Syria have been linked to and supported in recent years by Iran, which is in turn supported by Russia. Al-Sharaa is Sunni, so it makes sense that he, to the extent he "controls" Syria, would link more with Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc. But all that does it take "Syria" out of the Iran column and put it in the Sunni column. I could see that being a good thing for Syria (except for the Alawites, but nobody is likely to have much sympathy for them), but doesn't it just make Iran that much more desperate? And the last thing Israel wants is increasingly desperate terrorist/political groups on its borders. So when does all this Abraham Accord stuff, which is great in theory, become too much for Israel to handle? And what happens when THAT happens?

Relatedly, what is Putin thinking about all of this? Iran is basically his vassal state and there's zero chance he's willing to give up his influence in the Middle East. But, at the same time Trump is kowtowing to the Saudis, the Qataris and the Emiratis, he's also fellating Putin at every opportunity. And all of that is being reciprocated tit-for-tat (pun intended). So how does Putin square this circle? What happens if Putin tells the Supreme Leader to blow up a dirty bomb in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem?

My biggest concern is that Trump thinks all of this can be solved by some combination of grift and the force of his personality. We may be about to see where narcissism intersects with global politics in a way that implodes all of the norms that have kept us off the nuclear brink since 1945.
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It is complicated. This is a bit dated, but I think still holds true. Arabs vs Persians, Sunni vs Shi'a - "hatred" vs reality

You don't have to go back so far to know that Persians were in fact Sunni. The fight between the Safavids and the Ottomans changed that and set our recent memory, but for 8 maybe 9 centuries, Persians were largely Sunni. I mentioned on the old boards that my dad served in the USAF in Tehran (loved the country, the people and the poetry). Some of the most important Persian legal minds as well as a bunch of poets were Sunni.
 
ZenMode said:
Not at all. I just recognize that portraying the issue with Muslim extremists/terrorists/Jihadists as an issue with Islam/Muslims overall is BS and meant, as I referenced above, to manipulate morons.
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then you need to choose your words much more carefully or keep your goddamn mouth shut when people correct your bullshit.

this is what you said: "It's a good thing Hamas/Jihadists/Muslims just want "their" land back, and don't want to wipe Jews off the face of the Earth, or this could be taken the wrong way...."

i wouldn't have taken exception to your post if you had left it at hamas/jihadists but you threw literally billions of largely innocent/peaceful people under the bus.
 
4thgenheel said:
then you need to choose your words much more carefully or keep your goddamn mouth shut when people correct your bullshit.

this is what you said: "It's a good thing Hamas/Jihadists/Muslims just want "their" land back, and don't want to wipe Jews off the face of the Earth, or this could be taken the wrong way...."

i wouldn't have taken exception to your post if you had left it at hamas/jihadists but you threw literally billions of largely innocent/peaceful people under the bus.
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What if reference depends on what I'm saying. I wouldn't accuse just any Muslim of being a terrorist/Jihadist. However, I, as I did above, would probably reference "Muslims" when saying "they just want their land back". Again, nearly 75% of all Palestinian Muslims supported the actions of Hamas on October 7th.
 
Batt Boy said:
Palestinians already live in a nightmare and it's hard to imagine it getting worse, but if Israel normalizes with the Syrians, the Lebanese and even more Gulf States, it will over the immediate term.
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Maybe - it could also mean those countries agree to give Palestinians safe haven and a fresh start. I can dream at any rate.
 
What’s the excuse for targeting these civilians in a hospital courtyard? Are these also human shields?
 
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