Israel Hamas War, West Bank Settler violence

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pspsps said:
Israel has already bombed again. Is that not a collapse of the ceasefire?
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Ceasefires are often pretty dicey and only really work when both sides agree to overlook any number of skirmishes and violations of terms. Right now, a lot of countries are invested to varying degrees in making this stop or at least recede to pre-O7 levels of hostility, so pressuring Israel and Hamas to keep forging ahead.
 
ZenMode said:
So, we should not kill them?
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We don't have to kill them if we can come up with a better way to live for the people who might become them.

Our response to 9-11 created vastly more anti-American sentiment abroad and cultivated an environment which led to more dead Americans, wasted treasure, and a generation of people in places around the world who know nothing about the US except that we blew up their relatives.

And the response to October 7 is the same.
 
rodoheel said:
We should realize that any comprehensive, lasting solution to the problem is going to require a more complex solution than killing them
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Of course, but the only true solution is overcoming the generational brainwashing of religious extremism, which is a very, very long term goal; well outside of either of our lifetimes. In the meantime, we treat them like the murderous terrorists that they are, make it as difficult as possible to be terrorists and try to limit their numbers.
 
ZenMode said:
Of course, but the only true solution is overcoming the generational brainwashing of religious extremism, which is a very, very long term goal; well outside of either of our lifetimes. In the meantime, we treat them like the murderous terrorists that they are, make it as difficult as possible to be terrorists and try to limit their numbers.
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Violent death is pretty much never going to solve the "generational brainwashing of religious extremism." I'm not disputing that combating terrorism with violence is sometimes necessary. But doing the "long term" work you reference is far more important to ultimately getting rid of any particular brand of terrorism. The Troubles would be a good example of how it can ultimately be possible to move past these types of conflicts, but it takes a lot of patience and careful work on many sides.
 
rodoheel said:
Violent death is pretty much never going to solve the "generational brainwashing of religious extremism." I'm not disputing that combating terrorism with violence is sometimes necessary. But doing the "long term" work you reference is far more important to ultimately getting rid of any particular brand of terrorism. The Troubles would be a good example of how it can ultimately be possible to move past these types of conflicts, but it takes a lot of patience and careful work on many sides.
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Agree the long-term work is more important. I also think the long-term work has be executed almost entirely internally within the Muslim community. 'Merican whitey is a drop in the ocean as far as inspiring change.

I also think that the largely secular liberal community greatly underestimates the reality of the situation.
 
nycfan said:
IMG_0439.jpeg

🎁 —> https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-ea...2?st=GYPCLq&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
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“… Vance said there are two regions in Gaza, one relatively safe and the other incredibly dangerous, and that the goal is to geographically expand the area that is safe. Until then, Kushner said, no funds for reconstruction would go to areas that remain under Hamas’s control, and the focus would be on building up the safe side.

“There are considerations happening now in the area that the IDF controls, as long as that can be secured, to start the construction as a new Gaza in order to give the Palestinians living in Gaza a place to go, a place to get jobs, a place to live,” Kushner said, referring to Israel’s military by its initials.

Arab mediators are alarmed by the plan which, they said, the U.S. and Israel have brought up in peace talks.

Arab governments strongly oppose the idea of dividing Gaza, arguing it could lead to a zone of permanent Israeli control inside the enclave. They are unlikely to commit troops to police the enclave on those terms.…”
 


It’s like Ben Gvir and Smotrich are in a constant competition to figure out who is the most extreme member of the Israeli government…
 
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