Israel launches attack on Iran | US bombs Iran nuke sites

HeelYeah2012 said:
So where do we stand?

We blew the shit out of Iran’s nuke facilities, then Iran couldn’t do anything about it whatsoever, and now we’ve got a ceasefire that recently became effective?
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We don’t know yet the extent to which we damaged Iran’s ability to make nukes, but the damage done appears to be enough to get them to the negotiating table. Hopefully this in the future leads to an agreement similar to what we had up until 2018 with perhaps some additional ability for inspectors, if that was ever indeed an issue.

There is no ceasefire yet.
 
LosPollosHermanos said:
OK maybe it was 775. But the point is it's not hard to move 900 pounds of anything, so any idea that all this enriched uranium was just going to be sitting where the entire world knew it was until Iran got "tipped off" seems pretty ridiculous to me. I just listened to three hours of news on the way home from the beach and this war was the only thing discussed the entire time. Some of the stuff being thrown around is pretty far fetched. I hate Trump but I remain open to the possibility of a blind squirrel finding a nut here. I'm also open to the possibility this was a big mistake but those arguments shouldn't make fellow liberals facepalm.
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You and another guy didn’t move a 775 lbs sofa up two flights of stairs.

Ever try deadlifting 387.5 pounds? Now try that with something that is far harder to carry and balance and take it up two flights.

Edit: I misread the original post. It was four people carrying it. Apologies.
 
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superrific said:
Oh God. For real, dude? Transporting enriched, near-weapons grade uranium is like carrying a sofa?

I have no idea whether Trump tipped them off nor do I care. I'm just flabbergasted at the thought process here. Maybe it's sarcastic.
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Sofa weight aside I think he has a point. Smaller chunks of enriched uranium is not terrible dangerous. You can find people holding them with nothing but gloves.
 
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nycfan said:
I think Trump has several traits that may make him particularly (if not for great reasons) well suited to make progress with most of the key players in the Middle East:

* his transactional outlook generally
* he doesn’t care at all about human rights
* he doesn’t care much if at all about democracy or freedom other than the freedom of some to be rich
* he doesn’t care at all about conflicts or interest or ethics — and has made it clear he and his family are open for business / bribes
* he cares a great deal about fossil fuel — its impact on gas prices but also as a bizarrely vocal opponent of green energy
* his Administration has already announced they do not intend to enforce laws against bribery in foreign countries by U.S. businesses
* his newfound love of crypto and alternative currency schemes, which are very popular with folks trying to evade U.S. controls on dollar transactions
* his love of being lavished with praise, pomp and circumstance
* his love of strong men leaders in a region dominated by them
* Putin’s need to re-establish Russian influence in the Middle East
* he seems to have no grudges about 9/11
* he has no apparent interest in the long term repercussions of his actions, only how they directly benefit him at the time
* he has a somewhat fraught relationship with Netanyahu


None of that (except maybe the last bullet) is good for his domestic policies in the United States or for Palestinians, political dissidents or other vulnerable people in the Middle East. But it may make him an effective (if very gullible / easily manipulated) broker among the royalty and strongmen of the Middle East.
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How do you define progress?
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
Netanyahu needs to go. Even if the dude thinks he’s done nothing wrong, sometimes folks have to go because of perception, etc. Israel needs a new voice/figurehead/leader.
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He needed to go well before O7 and even moreso now. I posted earlier that I don’t believe this action by Trump was some sort of distraction but I might be able to be convinced that Bibi launched this attack on Iran now in part because he was facing a potential no confidence vote and still faces a reckoning over corruption charges once things normalize in Israel.
 
Zoo_View said:
How do you define progress?
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Fair point — progress in terms of normalizing relations among the Arab states and Israel and maybe restraining Iran and its proxies in the region. Not progress in terms of human rights or the plight of political dissidents, minorities or Palestinians. Hopefully, normalized relations and political stability in the region would lead to improved conditions for all in the long run but I know that is mostly wishful thinking.
 
A temporary ceasefire between Israel and Iran firing missiles at each other is not peace or an end to conflict. Not even close. Before Trumpites sprain their shoulders high-fiving and patting each other on the back, let's see if there is any real progress toward ending conflict in Gaza. Or Ukraine. Or replacing tariffs with significant trade agreements. Or reducing the national debt. Or any other campaign promises. This is a pleasant diversion and not much more.
 
hedge said:
And what will you say if it turns out they arrived here b/w 2017 and 2021?
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Just so lazy. The point is, and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt to know it, that one guy was and has been trying to stop to flow of illegal immigration and vet who is coming in, while the other guy and entire party, through their rhetoric and inaction has invited refugees and flung open the doors and released unvetted millions into the country. That's just an accepted fact and an extremely unpopular position your party has adopted. When something bad does happen, how do you think that is going to play out in public opinion? People like you didn't care, mocked those who objected, attacked their character, and refused to acknowledge the danger of your actions.
 
nycfan said:
He needed to go well before O7 and even moreso now. I posted earlier that I don’t believe this action by Trump was some sort of distraction but I might be able to be convinced that Bibi launched this attack on Iran now in part because he was facing a potential no confidence vote and still faces a reckoning over corruption charges once things normalize in Israel.
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I think the timing has more to do with Iran's weakness. Iran's subsidiaries in Syria and Lebanon are eliminated and the fall of Assad shows how significantly Russia's pre-occupation with Ukraine limits Russia's ability to assist its allies in the region.
 
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“It was my great honor to make this happen”

This guy. China is buying oil from Iran at a discount because they are ignoring/circumventing sanctions against Iran. So not exactly something POTUS should cheer on or want to take credit for, at least this openly.
 
nycfan said:


“It was my great honor to make this happen”

This guy. China is buying oil from Iran at a discount because they are ignoring/circumventing sanctions against Iran. So not exactly something POTUS should cheer on or want to take credit for, at least this openly.
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he ran on the platform that hes not a politician but in reality he is a great politician. pond scum level which is really saying something for either pubs or dems
 
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