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Israel launches attack on Iran

wmheel1287 said:
And they were never held to account and have led the US around by its nose ever since. How many American lives have been lost because of the hatred generated toward us by our enabling of the Israeli government?
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Yeah, I suppose we should have just let the Arabs slaughter the Jews in the years after the Holocaust so that we could protect ourselves from Islamofascist terrorists 50 years down the road. :rolleyes:
 
StrangePackage said:
This is the kind of stupid that throws away an umbrella during a thunderstorm because you're dry.
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Just chalk this issue up to another in a long list of political issues your side has been wrong on. And my God that list keeps getting longer every day. Political Party Destruction 101. You get the benefit of trump even though you were blindly supporting a vegetable. That is what makes America great.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Yeah, I suppose we should have just let the Arabs slaughter the Jews in the years after the Holocaust so that we could protect ourselves from Islamofascist terrorists 50 years down the road. :rolleyes:
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Based on wmheel's logic we should have just let the German's finish the job. Would have saved American lives right.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Yeah, I suppose we should have just let the Arabs slaughter the Jews in the years after the Holocaust so that we could protect ourselves from Islamofascist terrorists 50 years down the road. :rolleyes:
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If you mean 9/11, OBL called a fatwah against the US because the US had bases in Saudi Arabia used in the Kuwait/Gulf War I. 41 also abandoned Afghanistan after the Aghans/Northern Alliance defeated a crumbling Soviet Union, and left a power vacuum.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
Should we go around and settle old scores?
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Absolutely not. I never said we should. However, you seem to be perfectly happy that we jump in with both feet enabling others who are doing the same.

I think we should stay the hell out of any involvement with the Middle East. Completely and totally disconnected from the entire region in every way.
 

Article from 2018 when Trump ripped up the deal. Interesting to see who was right and who was wrong in retrospect.
Also interesting is the idea now that the old Iran nuclear agreement accomplished nothing. The first round of Trump officials didn’t agree with that notion. It wasn’t until Pompeo and Bolton came aboard that Trump found sympathetic ears to his “plan.”

Whatever you think, it is clear reading that article that what we are seeing today is 180 degrees from where Trump hoped/promised/thought we would be.
 
wmheel1287 said:
Absolutely not. I never said we should. However, you seem to be perfectly happy that we jump in with both feet enabling others who are doing the same.

I think we should stay the hell out of any involvement with the Middle East. Completely and totally disconnected from the entire region in every way.
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Ok. That’s a fair and rational position. I disagree with it but it’s logical enough.
 
ChileG said:
Interesting to see who was right and who was wrong in retrospect.
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Least surprising thing ever. The "who was right" and "who was wrong" doesn't change much over time. Our resident trolls and MAGAs are pretty much always wrong. That's why they have to chase new ideas and policies every couple of years. Eventually a million monkeys on typewriters might produce an English sentence.
 
wmheel1287 said:
Absolutely not. I never said we should. However, you seem to be perfectly happy that we jump in with both feet enabling others who are doing the same.

I think we should stay the hell out of any involvement with the Middle East. Completely and totally disconnected from the entire region in every way.
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There is really no universe - apart from one where the world relies on something other than oil and gas for energy - that the USA is not involved in matters in the Arab world. The first gulf war was about protecting our oil interests in Saudi Arabia and around the Gulf. 09/11 was about our troops remaining in SA post the first Gulf War. The second gulf war was about removing Hussein for oil. Everything is largely about oil (and not Israel - regardless of what some might suggest).
 
p5mmr9 said:
There is really no universe - apart from one where the world relies on something other than oil and gas for energy - that the USA is not involved in matters in the Arab world. The first gulf war was about protecting our oil interests in Saudi Arabia and around the Gulf. 09/11 was about our troops remaining in SA post the first Gulf War. The second gulf war was about removing Hussein for oil. Everything is largely about oil (and not Israel - regardless of what some might suggest).
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You forgot about us installing the Shah in Iran...for oil.
 
p5mmr9 said:
There is really no universe - apart from one where the world relies on something other than oil and gas for energy - that the USA is not involved in matters in the Arab world. The first gulf war was about protecting our oil interests in Saudi Arabia and around the Gulf. 09/11 was about our troops remaining in SA post the first Gulf War. The second gulf war was about removing Hussein for oil. Everything is largely about oil (and not Israel - regardless of what some might suggest).
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I understand the nature of those things. I also understand that we can purchase oil from the Middle East without meddling politically every 5 minutes and we can simultaneously engage every possible other source of energy to limit our exposure to Mid East dealings.
 
Callatoroy said:
Isn't that a little naive. Its only been thousands of years
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True, but one would think that with all the knowledge we have at this point in history that we would start to realize that there are better ways.

We can actually all live and not fight, if we could get out leaders and governments to work together.
 
Ramrouser said:
At the very least, the US has established total credibility with the Iranians in the ongoing negotiations. Trump stopped Israel from conducting this raid in April asking for time for negotiations to take place. He then spends the next 2 months telling the Iranians to cut a deal or "very bad things will happen" and that Israel has the very best equipment supplied by the US. Iran goes with the hardliners and drags their fee. They've now paid the price with their scientists and hard liners killed.

I'm celebrating a successful military raid/campaign that might end up saving millions of lives if Iran is prevented from developing the bomb.

I'm sure there are civilian deaths but most appear to be the Iranian Revolutionary Guard generals.
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Or it might make Iran's resolve to develop the bomb even greater.

We shouldn't be so accepting of civilian deaths or casualties of war.

It's sad that all of our world leaders can do no better job at preventing this.

My belief is that some like the wars and have no desire to prevent diplomatically, they will only accept prevention via force.
 
UNCatTech said:
Or it might make Iran's resolve to develop the bomb even greater.

We shouldn't be so accepting of civilian deaths or casualties of war.

It's sad that all of our world leaders can do no better job at preventing this.

My belief is that some like the wars and have no desire to prevent diplomatically, they will only accept prevention via force.
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That’s the entire world and those it doesn’t apply to are the people who don’t have the military might to do it.
 
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