Latin America Politics General Thread

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CRHeel94 said:
Watching the white people vote yesterday helps explain fascism in Europe in the 1930s. 😎
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You think I'm going to argue with you about that? It explains a lot more than fascism in the 1930s. There are hundreds of small town all across the American South that used to have lovely swimming pools, which they closed and filled in rather than desegregate. That is basically the story of American politics at the moment.
 
superrific said:
Watching the Latino vote yesterday helps explain authoritarianism in Latin America.
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Better explained by the U.S. constantly overthrowing democratically elected leaders and supporting strongmen.

Unless you’re saying Latinos have some kind of genetic predisposition towards authoritarian leaders. In which case…woof.
 
Paine said:
Better explained by the U.S. constantly overthrowing democratically elected leaders and supporting strongmen.

Unless you’re saying Latinos have some kind of genetic predisposition towards authoritarian leaders. In which case…woof.
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Of course it's not a genetic predisposition. Yes, I'm well aware of US foreign policy. Mostly it was a sardonic comment; to the extent that I meant anything by it, it would be more like, "when you grow up in an environment mostly governed by different flavors of authoritarianism, maybe you aren't as turned off by authoritarians as people who grew up in a democracy"
 
superrific said:
Of course it's not a genetic predisposition. Yes, I'm well aware of US foreign policy. Mostly it was a sardonic comment; to the extent that I meant anything by it, it would be more like, "when you grow up in an environment mostly governed by different flavors of authoritarianism, maybe you aren't as turned off by authoritarians as people who grew up in a democracy"
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I don’t think most of the Latino voters who voted for Trump grew up in an authoritarian environment.
 
Paine said:
I don’t think most of the Latino voters who voted for Trump grew up in an authoritarian environment.
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Not necessarily "grew up" but it's a frame of reference for them politically. But more importantly, it was a one-liner. You know full well that when I want to express a considered idea, it's not usually in the form of a single sentence.
 
Paine said:
Better explained by the U.S. constantly overthrowing democratically elected leaders and supporting strongmen.

Unless you’re saying Latinos have some kind of genetic predisposition towards authoritarian leaders. In which case…woof.
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I'm not super, but if anything, I think the point was that Latinos may have a *cultural* predisposition towards strongmen due to their history, not a *genetic* predisposition. And while there's no doubt that US meddling bears a lot of the blame for that, it's not the whole explanation. Machismo is a real thing. Not that it isn't insurmountable (see: Mexico electing a female president).
 
rodoheel said:
I'm not super, but if anything, I think the point was that Latinos may have a *cultural* predisposition towards strongmen due to their history, not a *genetic* predisposition. And while there's no doubt that US meddling bears a lot of the blame for that, it's not the whole explanation. Machismo is a real thing. Not that it isn't insurmountable (see: Mexico electing a female president).
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I guess I just don’t see the point of pointing that out. Like the weeping and gnashing of teeth from liberals about how we’re just a racist country and that’s why Harris lost. It makes it seem inevitable when you attribute things to culture.

Latino culture is no more or less authoritarian than American culture or European culture.
 
Paine said:
I guess I just don’t see the point of pointing that out. Like the weeping and gnashing of teeth from liberals about how we’re just a racist country and that’s why Harris lost. It makes it seem inevitable when you attribute things to culture.

Latino culture is no more or less authoritarian than American culture or European culture.
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I don’t really disagree with you. Just trying to clarify that I didn’t think super was referring a genetic thing and that there are genuine cultural differences that could have played a role.
 
rodoheel said:
I don’t really disagree with you. Just trying to clarify that I didn’t think super was referring a genetic thing and that there are genuine cultural differences that could have played a role.
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Yeah its called Catholicism.

The Anglo-Vatican divide has been raging for centuries.
 
AlbionAmerican said:
Yeah its called Catholicism.

The Anglo-Vatican divide has been raging for centuries.
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Well, actually it is called Caudillismo.

www.britannica.com

Caudillismo | Britannica | Britannica

Caudillismo, a system of political-social domination, based on the leadership of a strongman, that arose after the wars of independence from Spain in 19th-century Latin America. The Spanish word caudillo (“leader,” from the Latin capitellum [“small head”]) was used to describe the head of irregular
www.britannica.com www.britannica.com
 
donbosco said:
Well, actually it is called Caudillismo.

www.britannica.com

Caudillismo | Britannica | Britannica

Caudillismo, a system of political-social domination, based on the leadership of a strongman, that arose after the wars of independence from Spain in 19th-century Latin America. The Spanish word caudillo (“leader,” from the Latin capitellum [“small head”]) was used to describe the head of irregular
www.britannica.com www.britannica.com
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A conservative Catholic aristocratic culture is what fuels Caudillismo.
 
superrific said:
You think I'm going to argue with you about that? It explains a lot more than fascism in the 1930s. There are hundreds of small town all across the American South that used to have lovely swimming pools, which they closed and filled in rather than desegregate. That is basically the story of American politics at the moment.
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It was just a reflex reaction. Just a bit sensitive when I see pundits trying to pin this on the erosion of the Latino vote.

Paine actually summed it quite nicely.

Latino culture is no more or less authoritarian than American culture or European culture.
 
CRHeel94 said:
It was just a reflex reaction. Just a bit sensitive when I see pundits trying to pin this on the erosion of the Latino vote.

Paine actually summed it quite nicely.

Latino culture is no more or less authoritarian than American culture or European culture.
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1. I was just making a sardonic joke. I thought your reply was in the same vein. I didn't take offense. What you said was entirely appropriate.
2. It was in some measure because of the erosion of the Latino vote. But of course, the Latino vote is complex. Many "Latinos" are third generation and are Latino in the same way that I am Swedish. We just don't have special categories for Swedes.
3. As usual, white men were the main culprits.
4. If I offended you, I apologize. I thought that people know me well enough that they wouldn't read much into it. But if not, well that's my bad. I was obviously frustrated (still am).

I hope you know that you're one of my favorite posters, and have been for a long time. I've told you that but of course it's easy to forget who says what on a message board with so many pseudonyms. I see myself as a friend to all developing world countries (or, in CR's case, fairly developed) and peoples, and I want to be the best friend I can.

Also, one last point: Latino culture isn't intrinsically more or less authoritarian, but there can be temporal variation, right? Like, Germans are pretty anti-authoritarian these days, and German art/music certainly is. And that, ahem, wasn't always the case. Same with Spain. Since the 1960s, American culture has been really consistently anti-authoritarian, but that appears not to be true any more -- if only because our "culture" is now created in large measure by visible trolls on social media. In 15 years we might be making these jokes in reverse.
 
NCK9 said:
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That would make sense if this was an election between a capitalist and a socialist. Kamala Harris ran to the right of Biden on economic issues and lost.

Hispanic men want money in their pockets, just like working people everywhere else.
 
Paine said:
That would make sense if this was an election between a capitalist and a socialist. Kamala Harris ran to the right of Biden on economic issues and lost.

Hispanic men want money in their pockets, just like working people everywhere else.
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