Mack Brown (not) gone (yet)

[SnoopRob]

He said that he would move aside and let someone else give it a shot if he can't get the job done. How do you get that he's putting it on the players from those words?

Complete failure of leadership is a different matter/question.

Did you miss the first part of the post?

The only reason you bring up stepping aside is to either do it or to get people to tell you not to do it. As he's not stepping aside, the latter is the only option. And since he did it in the locker room in front of the players, it's clear he put it on the players to tell him not to do it.

 

[Ddseddse]

It's not the first time we allowed a team to score 70 points. ECU beat us 70-41 in 2014, but that's not the point.

My point is that we have a 100 year history of being a 7-5 football program. Expecting double digit wins and a top 10 finish every year is failing to recognize the limitations of our program as evidenced by 100 years of data.

I expect, each and every week, to field a prepared, focused, and we’ll coached football team. All of us should demand that.

This Win loss talk is for losers. Demand a prepared focused and well coached performance weekly and the Wins and Losses will take care of themselves.

 

[stankeylegjones]

Did you miss the first part of the post?

The only reason you bring up stepping aside is to either do it or to get people to tell you not to do it. As he's not stepping aside, the latter is the only option. And since he did it in the locker room in front of the players, it's clear he put it on the players to tell him not to do it.

I disagree. There are many reasons why you would say that you will work to make something happen and if you can't then you will move aside to let someone else see if they can do it. "Give me a chance and if I can't do it then I'll go away" is far away from "I am going to step down," hoping others tell you not to - which would be as you described.

 

[SnoopRob]

I disagree. There are many reasons why you would say that you will work to make something happen and if you can't then you will move aside to let someone else see if they can do it. "Give me a chance and if I can't do it then I'll go away" is far away from "I am going to step down," hoping others tell you not to - which would be as you described.

What are the reasons you'd tell your staff and players - who should have no real input into your decision to stay - about you possibly stepping aside other than to either do it or to get them to talk you out of it?

 

[farce©]

What are the reasons you'd tell your staff and players - who should have no real input into your decision to stay - about you possibly stepping aside other than to either do it or to get them to talk you out of it?

Yes, it is a transparent attempt for a vote of confidence from his players. It’s weak as hell.

 

[stankeylegjones]

What are the reasons you'd tell your staff and players - who should have no real input into your decision to stay - about you possibly stepping aside other than to either do it or to get them to talk you out of it?

Many reasons. One could be making sure that they know that you will not stick around if you can't get them better. That you want them to improve, and you will not hold them back from improving by sticking around and being a detriment. That their improvement means more to you than you being the head coach/employed.

Another could be what you a saying is the reason.

And many more reasons. Hence why I said that we don't know exactly what was going on or what the real reason is, and to call him a fucking loser is a bit much, imo. You clearly feel differently about him and the situation.

 

[KishiKaisei]

I strongly encourage UNC to retain the services of Mack Brown as the UNC head football coach for many years to come.

WATCH IT, SUCKA!

 

[Bigs23]

I expect, each and every week, to field a prepared, focused, and we’ll coached football team. All of us should demand that.

This Win loss talk is for losers. Demand a prepared focused and well coached performance weekly and the Wins and Losses will take care of themselves.

If you have the talent.

 

[mpaer]

People think Butch “stunk” for two reasons: 1. because our offense was so pedestrian for almost his entire tenure and 2. because we lost four straight to NC State. And to be clear, 3 of those 4 losses were bad losses. But we actually had a program that played sound, tough, physical, fundamental football, especially on defense. We lost games, yes, but we didn’t lose them because we looked and played like the Bad New Bears or the Washington Generals, like every single one of our losses these days.

Butch was a better talent identifier and talent developer than any coach UNC has ever had in football, including Mack 1.0. Butch’s primary problems were a stubborn adherence to an outdated offensive philosophy, and not understanding or caring to understand the significance of the N.C. State rivalry. Had the NCAA stuff not happened, his recruiting would have continued going gangbusters- Keith Marshall and Todd Gurley are both Tar Heels-, and we’d have continued amassing unbelievable amounts of future NFL talent. Look at the offensive line that Butch left Larry Fedora in 2012- look at how many of those guys played on Sundays. The 2011 and 2012 offenses would have, IMO, looked completely different than the 2007-2009 ones that people remember with such disdain. Hell, in 2010 when Butch was forced out of necessity to change his offensive philosophy, TJ Yates had TWO 400-yard passing games in an era where that wasn’t all that common in college football like it is now.

Injuries to TJ Yates and Brandon Tate in 2008 kept that from being a 10-win season (two years removed from the 3-9 that got Bunting fired). Injuries to the entire offensive line for the first half of 2009 kept that one from being a 10-win season, too. Yeah, yeah, I know (and I agree) that if if’s and but’s were candy and nuts…

My point is that Butch Davis was a whole hell of a lot better than most of our football fans seem to remember here with 14 years of hindsight, and by the time he was fired, we were well on our way to building a legitimate ACC and possible national title contender. Butch was the one time and one time only where UNC institutionally committed to football, and it’s a shame that they were so quick to throw up the white flag and unconditionally surrender at the very first sign of the NCAA asking questions, instead of doubling down and protecting the program like literally every other serious football school would have done.

Butch gets hired . Early on he meets with his Medical staff. He says
" I determine who is well enough to play. You are my Medical advisors I am the Head Coach "
On a scale of 1-10 I will swear by this as a 10
He had some significant issues

 

[CFordUNC]

Butch gets hired . Early on he meets with his Medical staff. He says
" I determine who is well enough to play. You are my Medical advisors I am the Head Coach "
On a scale of 1-10 I will swear by this as a 10
He had some significant issues

Yep, he definitely said that. You’re right. He also told Cam Holland at practice, in front of the entire team (Cam was a pre-med student and had a late afternoon mandatory lab that conflicted with football practice), “if you want a fucking education go to Harvard. You’re here to play football.” I completely and totally disagreed with him on both counts. That’s not at all what you say as someone who sat in recruits’ living room, and played up to their mommas and grandmommas how deeply important education is to you and how you are going to look out for their son like he was your own.

Still, I think that the overall total package of Butch Davis was lightyears better than anything that we’ve had in my lifetime as a Carolina fan (dating to the 2000 football season). Admittedly I am not completely unbiased as I worked for his program. But strictly as a Carolina football fan, what we had – and more importantly, where we were headed – under Butch was way better than anything we’ve experienced since, and unless we make Football a much bigger priority institutionally, it’s going to continue to have served as the high watermark, unfortunately.

 

[shonuff]

I didn’t realize how many points those teams would score in this years game. The fact that you think North Carolina spends at least 40% more on it’s football program to get the results you’ve gotten is sad.

Oh, and Duke is a 3.5 point favorite Saturday. That is still a conference game, isn’t it?

Good luck, this weekend.

Good luck. No argument from me that UNC is overrated almost every year. I am saying this year our schedule is the weakest out of all ACC teams. We don’t play the top teams.

Duke being a 3.5 favorite at a home game to a team that just had 70 points scored against them against JMU says to me they are not a great team at least in the eyes of the public. They are starting to invest more in their program the last few years so maybe they become ‘decent’ ;-)

Any decent team should curb stomp us this year. Good luck.

 

[Peppers49]

If you have the talent.

2024 College ACC Football Team Talent Composite

In order to create the most comprehensive Team Recruiting Ranking without any notion of bias, 247Sports Team Recruiting Ranking is solely based on the 247Sports Composite Rating.

247sports.com

 

[maxcrowder]

I don't know their ticket package prices today-but for a long time the last twenty years they got a whole new set of local fans-not grads necessarily-loving Duke Football You could get like a family in for 50 bucks or something

i remember the time if you went to a Duke football game, you have a good chance of playing.

 

[CarolinaFever]

He said that he would move aside and let someone else give it a shot if he can't get the job done. How do you get that he's putting it on the players from those words?

Complete failure of leadership is a different matter/question.

Because he said it to the players. He should have never said that to them. He was looking for them to tell him to stay so he would have a reason to not resign.

 

[CarolinaFever]

We have been mediocre for 100 years. We have had 34 coaches during that time.

Are you suggesting we have not tried over the last 100 years ?

Do you think that after 100 years we will suddenly find the magical solution that will propel us beyond mediocrity ?

If so, what is that is magical solution ?

Guess they should just give up then.

 

[CarolinaFever]

Many reasons. One could be making sure that they know that you will not stick around if you can't get them better. That you want them to improve, and you will not hold them back from improving by sticking around and being a detriment. That their improvement means more to you than you being the head coach/employed.

Another could be what you a saying is the reason.

And many more reasons. Hence why I said that we don't know exactly what was going on or what the real reason is, and to call him a fucking loser is a bit much, imo. You clearly feel differently about him and the situation.

Really reaching here.

 

[mpaer]

Yep, he definitely said that. You’re right. He also told Cam Holland at practice, in front of the entire team (Cam was a pre-med student and had a late afternoon mandatory lab that conflicted with football practice), “if you want a fucking education go to Harvard. You’re here to play football.” I completely and totally disagreed with him on both counts. That’s not at all what you say as someone who sat in recruits’ living room, and played up to their mommas and grandmommas how deeply important education is to you and how you are going to look out for their son like he was your own.

Still, I think that the overall total package of Butch Davis was lightyears better than anything that we’ve had in my lifetime as a Carolina fan (dating to the 2000 football season). Admittedly I am not completely unbiased as I worked for his program. But strictly as a Carolina football fan, what we had – and more importantly, where we were headed – under Butch was way better than anything we’ve experienced since, and unless we make Football a much bigger priority institutionally, it’s going to continue to have served as the high watermark, unfortunately.

Butch was the the biggest effort we had made for several decades. I have no doubt it did not come from the AD , but rather the BOT/Big Rams. He could evaluate talent/recruit like no bodys business. I do think his understanding of what 'was needed" culture wise etc was top notch.
When he signed Marvin and got the big squared jawed receiver from Durham to flip from ND-I was pretty sure his recruitment was slimey. And I think the record shows my fears were correct .
Overall he never won more than 8 That is is his record. You are lucky to have worked for his organization. I have no doubt there were aspects of of it that experience that were inspirational
Overall his legacy for UNC is really bad news. And his subsequent jobs confirmed that legacy . His managent team ( AD, Chancellor ) poorly handled the NCAA nvestigation-no doubt. It was cluster duck.
I am frustrated by folks that blame it all on Thorp. I blame it on Blake and Butch's faith in him

 

[stankeylegjones]

Because he said it to the players. He should have never said that to them. He was looking for them to tell him to stay so he would have a reason to not resign.

If that was his goal then it most likely would have said, "I don't think I have it anymore team, I think it's time for me to step aside." Not, "I will do everything I can to get us all better and if I can't then I will let someone else try."

And, I disagree. I can totally see how a player would like to know that he cares more about them getting better than he does about getting a paycheck.

Finally, these discussions are great, but, in the end, we still don't know exactly what was said (verbatim) nor the circumstances leading up to and after the game. So, we should keep that in mind before calling him a "fucking loser," imo. That is my main contribution to this thread.

 

[SnoopRob]

Many reasons. One could be making sure that they know that you will not stick around if you can't get them better. That you want them to improve, and you will not hold them back from improving by sticking around and being a detriment. That their improvement means more to you than you being the head coach/employed.

Another could be what you a saying is the reason.

And many more reasons. Hence why I said that we don't know exactly what was going on or what the real reason is, and to call him a fucking loser is a bit much, imo. You clearly feel differently about him and the situation.

No offense, but that's bullshit. The team should already know that Mack and the staff want them to improve. And restating that right after a total ass-kicking with the additional burden that Mack might step down is such an absolutely tone deaf leadership move that we'd have to assume that Mack is a terrible leader rather than a celebrated coach with a 40-year HC career.

If that's the best that Mack can do, then he should step down immediately because he's obviously lost the ability to lead a team.

Then you say there are "many more reasons" but for some reason you can't actually state any of them.

The simplest explanation is that Mack made that statement in an emotional state where he wanted the team to rally around him. But it's such a breach of leadership that it should be the end of his career.

 

[stankeylegjones]

No offense, but that's bullshit. The team should already know that Mack and the staff want them to improve. And restating that right after a total ass-kicking with the additional burden that Mack might step down is such an absolutely tone deaf leadership move that we'd have to assume that Mack is a terrible leader rather than a celebrated coach with a 40-year HC career.

If that's the best that Mack can do, then he should step down immediately because he's obviously lost the ability to lead a team.

Then you say there are "many more reasons" but for some reason you can't actually state any of them.

The simplest explanation is that Mack made that statement in an emotional state where he wanted the team to rally around him. But it's such a breach of leadership that it should be the end of his career.

0. There's a difference between knowing that someone wants you to get better and knowing that they will work to get you better and if they can't then they will work to find someone else who can get you better. I personally would appreciate a coach telling me that. "Hey, I'm going to do everything I can to get you better and if I can't get it done then I am going to help get someone in here who can." That does not sound like a tone-deaf leadership move.

1. I didn't offer more reasons because you didn't ask for any. You asked for the reason that I thought he said what he said. It's impossible to know the reason, because we don't know exactly what else was said and the circumstances leading up to the game and after the game. As far as other reasons, he could have said it to gain sympathy, or to get affirmation from his players, or he just blurted it out without thinking, or he wants to retire but doesn't know how to, or .... The possibilities are endless.

2. If Mack was looking for what you say he way, then why would he not simply say that he thinks he should retire?

3. At the end of the day, neither you nor I, nor anyone else here knows all of the situation. We're all just speculating. My point was, and is, you have some very strong feelings against him, when you don't know all of the details of the situation. I find it odd to be so angry and upset about a situation that you don't fully understand. But, sports do crazy things to people.