Mack Brown (not) gone (yet)

[Zoo_View]

As many know MB is personable and I experienced that first hand during the home visit, however there was a split second when the veil slipped and I thought to myself he might not be who he sells himself to be!

Next instance was during the official visit when my daughter said she was not very knowledgable about football and he replied that he could tell her anything and she'd believe him. It left her less than impressed and she always said Fedora was a coach who was exactly as he presented himself while MB 'not so much'!

During the covid year, he reported to the media the team had no occurrences when we knew for a fact there were several players isolated to their rooms. That bold faced lie never sat well with me.

Bateman did not get the support he needed from MB to be successful, he was undermined consistently by position coaches who were former players for MB.

He has built a program that has at its' foundation a very soft culture. MB is PTB/donor based coach who is media savvy but where x's and o's meet on the playing field is clueless.

Thanks! Appreciate the post.

 

[HandsonFire]

that is 100% what he just did

If you think a well coached team opens up the playbook against grossly inferior teams when they have a game circled on the schedule, I don't know what to tell you. And a head coach going out announcing he lost 96% of this performance, um, well, I can't imagine why anyone would do that.

Again, I know GW kept it close but Vegas never even makes you a 36.5 favorite unless they know you have something. And that's exactly what I was telling people this morning when they were saying "but they only beat GW by 7".

Look, this all escalated because I do think JMU would beat a lot of ACC teams by 20, and took exception to a poster insinuating they were basically a community college. And that is particularly true of the bad ACC teams, which we are one of. I'm actually a fan of Mack, and unlike most fans I measure him against all other UNC coaches and not Nick Saban and the like. But I will be the first to tell you he's made his living as a recruiter, and when he couldn't put anything better than those three duds at the QB position, I knew it was his time.

Yeah qb recruiting was very telling. No qb worth a damn wants to come to UNC or if they do the people influencing them won’t let them come to UNC. Reason being the talent and opportunity is wasted under MB.

 

[tarheelbillie]

I give you props for owning up you did not know they were a good program. They are.

All is I will say is I saw the loss coming. I sometimes invest in these types of things and I am on record as telling people to not lay one dime on UNC today. The mere fact that Vegas only had us as a 10.5 fav when the average sports gambler comes in with a similar knowledge level as you is a big red flag. I mean surely 3-0 UNC is going to whoop up on little old James Madison right?

It was still probably the most embarrasing half of footballl I've ever seen but the name on their jersey doesn't make it any worse.

ETA: One of those App. St. Sun Belt teams dropped 60+ on us but we won. Or Drake Maye won, as the case may be. And right now, JMU is the class of the Sun Belt. Needless to say I went into today with the same sickly feeling I had before the Trump-Biden debate. And I was right both times. We don't have a Drake Maye any more.

True Drake is gone but somehow UNC managed to score 50 points. Seems the problem was the cheerleaders were playing defense. The spread was the same as 7 - 27. Sounds better.

 

[Zoo_View]

True Drake is gone but somehow UNC managed to score 50 points. Seems the problem was the cheerleaders were playing defense. The spread was the same as 7 - 27. Sounds better.

Nothing makes the spread look better.

 

[stankeylegjones]

What. A. Fucking. Loser.

Mack Brown wasn't my first choice 6 years ago when he was rehired, but once it was clear we were strongly considering him I was hopeful he could come in and rebuild the program. And I was excited when it seemed he was doing that. And when we fell off a cliff 2 seasons ago, i was frustrated but thought he deserved a chance to run it back with Drake to see if he could lead us to a better season last year. And then when we fell off a cliff last year I was ready for him to go, but I understand that "8 wins is pretty good in Chapel Hill" and that it's hard to fire a guy doing a little better than our historical average. And even as poorly as we've played this year and as unfathomably poorly as we played today, I would have been ok supporting the program with Mack at the helm through the end of the season and then celebrating him as he rode off into retirement at the end of the year.

But, after this absolute shit-show of a performance, to go into the locker room and announce you're willing to retire but to put the burden on the players to talk you out of it? Those are the actions of a fucking coward. Not even enough leadership to go into the locker room and either rally the players for future games or announce that you've obviously lost the ability to coach the team and you're retiring. Instead you need the players to pump you up and tell you it's ok and make them rally you into continuing to coach the team.

He needs to be called into the ADs office tomorrow morning to see what he plans to do. And if it's not retire, then he needs to be walked out of the building and told his stuff will be packed up and sent to him. How in the world can anyone think he can walk back into that locker room and lead those players? To tell them that they should follow him out there onto the field after he needed them to make him feel better after that ass-kicking?

I was pissed by the way he left in 1997, but I understood his decision-making and why he would go to Texas. But making the players console him after the game and convince him not to retire? Fuck him in the ass with a giant cactus.

Strong feelings for not knowing exactly what happened.

 

[stankeylegjones]

Why does the dildo have to be rusty, though?

Rusty feel the best, imho.

 

[SnoopRob]

Strong feelings for not knowing exactly what happened.

Unless the story has been completely and utterly misreported - and please note the reporting matches the rumors that were going around before the official reporting - then I'll stand by what I typed. The exact details don't matter when based on everything that's come out the situation was fucked up in one of the worst ways imaginable.

 

[maxcrowder]

are you Cjones?

 

[LosPollosHermanos]

As many know MB is personable and I experienced that first hand during the home visit, however there was a split second when the veil slipped and I thought to myself he might not be who he sells himself to be!

Next instance was during the official visit when my daughter said she was not very knowledgable about football and he replied that he could tell her anything and she'd believe him. It left her less than impressed and she always said Fedora was a coach who was exactly as he presented himself while MB 'not so much'!

During the covid year, he reported to the media the team had no occurrences when we knew for a fact there were several players isolated to their rooms. That bold faced lie never sat well with me.

Bateman did not get the support he needed from MB to be successful, he was undermined consistently by position coaches who were former players for MB.

He has built a program that has at its' foundation a very soft culture. MB is PTB/donor based coach who is media savvy but where x's and o's meet on the playing field is clueless.

I remember when the team got passed off to Torbush and I can't remember who said it, but it was someone in the program. "Carl Torbush knows 1000% more about football than Mack Brown but will win 10% as many games". The question for the people who always wanted to basically throw the baby out with the bathwater was who the hell can we get that is any better? If you want to fire the 7-8 win guy you better have a 9-10 win guy lined up, but that possibility was delusional. Our fans could never see that, and worse many were extremely ungrateful for what he has done here. Bluntly, thinking that simply because we are winning 7 or 8 games and landing 5 star QBs, that we should therefore be winning 10-11 games and landing 5 star everyone is NC State level thinking. There is no rational, historical basis to believe UNC football should be doing anything more than what we did the last 8 or so years. But I think what we saw today, and the fact that he didn't land anything better at QB for this season, is pretty strong evidence he has lost whatever he had that made him the winningest active coach. But historically, it also means tickets are getting ready to be even cheaper for a long, long time. Because we are gonna suck ass.

Yeah qb recruiting was very telling. No qb worth a damn wants to come to UNC or if they do the people influencing them won’t let them come to UNC. Reason being the talent and opportunity is wasted under MB.

He never maximized his talent, ever. But he used to be able to convince people he could.

 

[unc879]

GW was in the red zone and stopped on downs with 2 min to go and you are saying they "held back play calling because they knew they would win?" And then double down by saying not only would they beat half of the ACC, but would do so by 20 a game? And if "Vegas usually knows something" why did they have them favored by 36 vs GW?

Look, I agree that JMU is a decent program, not a "community college", but let's be realistic here.

 

[Mulberry Heel]

IMO, Brown has never been a great Xs and Os, in-game type of coach. Throughout his career he's been a great recruiter who relied on talented players and assistants to overcome his weaknesses as a gameday coach. He's also a very smooth talker who is great at the public relations side of the job and has always been a good "face" for a football program. At Texas he had a great staff and loads of talent and he did win a national title. But even at Texas the knock on many of his teams is that they were soft and sometimes lost games to teams they had no business losing to. Now that he's older and slower and doesn't have the financial resources he had at UT, a certain complacency and lethargy seems to have settled over him, and that is reflected in the play of his teams.

 

[eternalheel]

I'm at the weird portion of the proceedings where I'm kind of begging mack to stay.

I despise my allies....and I'm sure James Madison is way better than the reactionaries are at controlling their emotions.

 

[DougDaBroadcasta]

I don't know about any of you, but I'm just sad.

 

[Zoo_View]

IMO, Brown has never been a great Xs and Os, in-game type of coach. Throughout his career he's been a great recruiter who relied on talented players and assistants to overcome his weaknesses as a gameday coach. He's also a very smooth talker who is great at the public relations side of the job and has always been a good "face" for a football program. At Texas he had a great staff and loads of talent and he did win a national title. But even at Texas the knock on many of his teams is that they were soft and sometimes lost games to teams they had no business losing to. Now that he's older and slower and doesn't have the financial resources he had at UT, a certain complacency and lethargy seems to have settled over him, and that is reflected in the play of his teams.

We’re just wanting to not give up 70 points to JMU….not to win the national title.

 

[stankeylegjones]

Unless the story has been completely and utterly misreported - and please note the reporting matches the rumors that were going around before the official reporting - then I'll stand by what I typed. The exact details don't matter when based on everything that's come out the situation was fucked up in one of the worst ways imaginable.

I understand you are upset and angry about it. I'm just saying that we don't know if the source got it right, or if the IC article (which CBS sports was citing) relayed the message accurately, or if there was something leading up to it behind the scenes between the coach(es) and players, any contextual things that might mitigate the fucking it up "in one of the worst ways imaginable," how the players will respond/grow (or regress), etc. There's just too much unknown and too much history of hearing about Mack being a great human, to immediately jump to calling him a "Fucking loser."

Just my opinion.

 

[LosPollosHermanos]

GW was in the red zone and stopped on downs with 2 min to go and you are saying they "held back play calling because they knew they would win?" And then double down by saying not only would they beat half of the ACC, but would do so by 20 a game? And if "Vegas usually knows something" why did they have them favored by 36 vs GW?

Look, I agree that JMU is a decent program, not a "community college", but let's be realistic here.

I do not have time to educate you on all the nuances of vegas lines, but teams favored by more than 35.5 points are 941-7 in the last 27 years. Vegas is essentially saying they do not belong on the same field and 941 wins versus 7 losses speaks for itself as to their accuracy on that point. Do I think JMU intended to hold back so much that the GW game would be that close? Of course not. Somebody nearly fucked around and found out. But do I think the reason it was that close is because they were holding back? I'd bet my life on it. Vegas spreads will obviously have variances week to week from what actually happens on the field. The score will not always be exactly what the spread is and that's part of what makes gambling fun. People get to pretend they know more than Vegas and they get it right often enough to make them go lose some more. But historically, if you look at 1000 games with a spread of 36.5, the average margin of those games will be extremely close to 36.5. They do not build large buildings and make billions by being poor predictors of outcomes.

I'm not saying Sun Belt teams hold up well on a W-L basis against Power 4 opponents overall. But the best ones do. Like when we barely beat App and everyone on IC has a meltdown, then they go out the next week and beat Texas A&M. Like last year when App lost 40-34 in 2OT vs. the woofies, who went 9-4 overall. There is not enough of a sample size to actually say what the BEST Sun Belt teams typically do against the mid to lower tier power conference teams, but last year ALL Sun Belt teams went 3-9 against the P5 and most of the games were competitive. People saying oh this JMU team was good last year but they lost everyone this year. Well, they're still predicted to be second this year behind App. Top tier Sun Belt teams are no joke. I don't think there is even any real argument they are the best conference outside the Power 4. And yes I think top tier Sun Belt teams beat mid to lower tier ACC teams more often that not, and have the potential to whoop them too like today. It's a new reality.

What I really think gets me the most is seeing this mostly clueless fair weather fan base going around trying to make this loss look even worse. Like let's go around saying this historic ass whooping was also to a community college, as if that helps anything. I guess we all have different coping mechanisms.

ETA: You look at the play calls with the fake XP, the onside kick, etc. He was pulling out every trick he had. These are the games that put these G5 coaches and teams on the map even moreso than winning their conference or going to the Toilet Bowl. There is no doubt in my mind he was giving us no film to watch on anything and then busted his nut today.

 

[Kraftyheel89]

Your "logic" is astounding to behold. Maybe you had a bad feeling about this game and now think you are some sort of football genius. You are not.

Your premise is that JMU is a great team this year. The only reason they have not looked so, is because they have been saving the mastery of their playbook, for us.

Thus, you are saying that had we met in week 1 (totally new team, new coach, no film) we should have had the same outcome. Ridiculous.

And what is this great playbook they saved? An onsides kick, rushing a slow Aussie punter with an unblocked WR out wide? Having your team amped up?

Face it, this is a team that has struggled against bad competition. If they had tried all those gimmicks against a well coached team, they would have lost by 7 TDs instead of 5.

Are you Sparky Woods? You are the one that knows nothing about college football. And you prove it the more you try to dig in and make JMU 2024 out to be something they are not.

 

[Kraftyheel89]

I understand you are upset and angry about it. I'm just saying that we don't know if the source got it right, or if the IC article (which CBS sports was citing) relayed the message accurately, or if there was something leading up to it behind the scenes between the coach(es) and players, any contextual things that might mitigate the fucking it up "in one of the worst ways imaginable," how the players will respond/grow (or regress), etc. There's just too much unknown and too much history of hearing about Mack being a great human, to immediately jump to calling him a "Fucking loser."

Just my opinion.

Mack never quit and he is not going to do so. He left the game and went into the PC with his tail between his legs. He then went into his locker room and pulled this sulking retiree nonsense for team support.

IC screwed up the reporting. Mack told his team he would quit IF it would give the team a better chance to win. He got what he wanted, a bunch of sympathy and begging from his players.

IC falsely ran with a "scoop" that Mack resigned. He never did or intended to do so.

 

[circlesky88]

Whatever happened after the game yesterday there is absolutely no way you let Mack come back next year. That should be a given. Maybe something that was said was misconstrued. Maybe he did quit and then walk it back. It’s a crap show no matter what.

 

[shonuff]

Whatever happened after the game yesterday there is absolutely no way you let Mack come back next year. That should be a given. Maybe something that was said was misconstrued. Maybe he did quit and then walk it back. It’s a crap show no matter what.

He should do well against the remaining schedule. If he doesn’t he should be gone. He has, by far, the easiest ACC schedule of any team and maybe the easiest schedule of any major conference in the country. Make the ACCCG, come very close or retire. He definitely will not win the ACCCG but any major conference team would love our remaining schedule. He should be favored in most games and will have more talent as well. It’s a historically weak schedule. Pitt and BC are the only decent teams and Pitt is at home. Will be interesting to see Criswell against an ACC mediocre to bad defense which what he will be up against each game.