Mass Shooting & Gun Violence | LDS Church Attacked

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milom98 said:
Yes he did. He was a troubled young man that came from a really, really poor upbringing and was always looking for attention any way he could get it. He once left class to "use the bathroom" and came back with his teeth colored 10 different marker color. He did stuff like that all the time. The teacher in that class had bought/brought him clothes, shoes... and really tried to guide him in the right direction. I always tried being nice to him because he was an outcast and the teacher noticed that (told me so) and always paired me with him for anything we did that required a partner.

He fell behind me a grade or two but I remember when he arrived at highschool he always wore a tie. The same tie everyday whether it was with a T-shirt, sweater... Don't think he ever caused any real trouble in highschool as far as I know but I did see his name in a local paper several times where he had run ins with the law (mostly alcohol related stuff).
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Sad but too common story of kids doomed by horrible parenting.
 
milom98 said:
I've told this story before but I hadn't given much thought about what the results would have been if the kid in my class had executed what he was trying.

It was 5th grade (so 1980-81) and a kid in my class brought a shotgun shell and a screwdriver to school and in the middle of class he pulled them out and started hitting on the firing cap end of the shell with the screwdriver. I remember it vividly because a girl that was sitting right in front of me saw it happening and started screaming and the teacher was there in a flash to put a stop to it. I've never seen someone yanked up and drug out of class so fast.

Anyway, I'm sure it's probably possible for a 5th grader to fire off a shotgun shell in the manner I described but what kind of impact would it likely take to set off a shell and what would be the result of a shotgun shell going off out in the open and not guided like when it's discharged in a barrel? I keep thinking it would be more like a bomb going off and the shot inside it going everywhere like shrapnel.

I don't even like thinking about what could have happened if he had succeeded in setting that shell off.
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Sorta got me curious...I found this video, which I thought was interesting...

 
TarSpiel said:
Sorta got me curious...I found this video, which I thought was interesting...

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That was really surprising. Like I said earlier, I always envisioned it just exploding and spreading the shot around in every direction at a fairly high rate of speed.

I'm sure it wouldn't have been good for his fingers/hand that was holding if it had went off.
 


“…
Detectives believe the shooting was not random “and stemmed from an isolated incident where multiple victims were caught in the crossfire,” Mr. Fitzgerald said in a statement on Sunday morning. He added that detectives were still working to determine the intended target.

At least four of the injured victims suffered life-threatening wounds, Mr. Fitzgerald said. All the victims were standing on the sidewalk or in the street, he said.

… Saturday’s attack came after four people were killed and nine injured in another shooting in Birmingham in July. The police said that in that episode, they believed at least one person fired shots into a nightclub in North Birmingham.”
 
nycfan said:


“…
Detectives believe the shooting was not random “and stemmed from an isolated incident where multiple victims were caught in the crossfire,” Mr. Fitzgerald said in a statement on Sunday morning. He added that detectives were still working to determine the intended target.

At least four of the injured victims suffered life-threatening wounds, Mr. Fitzgerald said. All the victims were standing on the sidewalk or in the street, he said.

… Saturday’s attack came after four people were killed and nine injured in another shooting in Birmingham in July. The police said that in that episode, they believed at least one person fired shots into a nightclub in North Birmingham.”
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Sounds like more gang violence that could be avoided if existing gun laws were enforced. Instead, we'll just wash our hands of this one because it makes certain people feel uncomfortable.
 
05C40 said:
In re: Kentucky Sheriff shoots judge - The whole thing about the Sheriff being sued because his deputy solicited and received sexual favors from a female defendant and collected those favors in the chambers of the judge who was shot really puts a twist on this story. The sheriff was scheduled to be deposed in that case this coming Monday. The allegation against the Sheriff is something like failure to provide proper training to the deputy. I'm imagining a scenario where the Sheriff confronts the Judge--who was in on the scheme--and demands that it stop. And Judge responds with something like, "And if I don't, what are you going to do?"
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Could be. I kind of thought it might be judge found out about it and reported it and sheriff thought it was going to ruin his or maybe the deputy's life. They argued about it and judge got shot. I'm kind of thinking yours might be more likely.

Or maybe the sheriff asked the judge to give certain testimony that would minimize the issue or make the sheriff less culpable and the judge told him to kick rocks.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Sounds like more gang violence that could be avoided if existing gun laws were enforced. Instead, we'll just wash our hands of this one because it makes certain people feel uncomfortable.
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Which gun laws do we need to enforce better to avoid incidents like this?
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Could be. I kind of thought it might be judge found out about it and reported it and sheriff thought it was going to ruin his or maybe the deputy's life. They argued about it and judge got shot. I'm kind of thinking yours might be more likely.

Or maybe the sheriff asked the judge to give certain testimony that would minimize the issue or make the sheriff less culpable and the judge told him to kick rocks.
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You are probably correct. But maybe when the Sheriff confronted the Judge about the sexual favors thing, the Judge said that both he and the deputy were planning to testify the Sheriff was the one who organized that particular scam. But this is Eastern Kentucky, so who knows what weird stuff is going on. Probably weirder than either of us can imagine.
 
rodoheel said:
Which gun laws do we need to enforce better to avoid incidents like this?
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Felon in possession of firearm, possession of stolen gun, aggravated assault, attempted murder, homicide for starters. If Diddy can be held without Bond while awaiting trial for sex trafficking charges then someone who literally shoots someone else with a stolen firearm can be held without bond as well.
 
05C40 said:
You are probably correct. But maybe when the Sheriff confronted the Judge about the sexual favors thing, the Judge said that both he and the deputy were planning to testify the Sheriff was the one who organized that particular scam. But this is Eastern Kentucky, so who knows what weird stuff is going on. Probably weirder than either of us can imagine.
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I thought it was weird that judge was related to the chief prosecutor. Is that common? I can't imagine it would be fair to any defendant where those two were involved in the same trial.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Felon in possession of firearm, possession of stolen gun, aggravated assault, attempted murder, homicide for starters. If Diddy can be held without Bond while awaiting trial for sex trafficking charges then someone who literally shoots someone else with a stolen firearm can be held without bond as well.
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lol you're talking about retroactive punishment for this crime. I'm confident that if they catch a suspect they'll charge the suspect with whatever crimes were committed (that article did not seem to suggest they had anyone in custody). There are not places where people aren't enforcing freaking murder laws. The question is how to stop this from happening, not how to punish the people who did it.
 
rodoheel said:
lol you're talking about retroactive punishment for this crime. I'm confident that if they catch a suspect they'll charge the suspect with whatever crimes were committed (that article did not seem to suggest they had anyone in custody). There are not places where people aren't enforcing freaking murder laws. The question is how to stop this from happening, not how to punish the people who did it.
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The problem is that people are arrested for serious gun crimes (including shooting people with those illegal guns) and bond out immediately while waiting for a trial that may be 3 years away. They face no consequences for their actions so they continue to commit crimes involving guns. If someone is incarcerated they are unable to shoot someone outside of a nightclub.
 
rodoheel said:
lol you're talking about retroactive punishment for this crime. I'm confident that if they catch a suspect they'll charge the suspect with whatever crimes were committed (that article did not seem to suggest they had anyone in custody). There are not places where people aren't enforcing freaking murder laws. The question is how to stop this from happening, not how to punish the people who did it.
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These are rarely first time offenders. Also make gun ownership illegal and pay money for guns..whether voluntary or snitching on others.

We have proven that we just can't handle guns as a society.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
The problem is that people are arrested for serious gun crimes (including shooting people with those illegal guns) and bond out immediately while waiting for a trial that may be 3 years away. They face no consequences for their actions so they continue to commit crimes involving guns. If someone is incarcerated they are unable to shoot someone outside of a nightclub.
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Is there any evidence that something like that happened in this case? If so what's the point? How many shootings are performed by someone who is already out on bail for another shooting? My guess is a tiny fraction, well under one percent. The idea that most gun crime results from serial criminals who keep shooting people while they await trial is silly.

As for bonding out - is it your belief that people should be incarcerated for years before they've been convicted of a crime? That's pretty frightening IMO. If anything we keep too many people held before an actual conviction.
 
rodoheel said:
Is there any evidence that something like that happened in this case? If so what's the point? How many shootings are performed by someone who is already out on bail for another shooting? My guess is a tiny fraction, well under one percent. The idea that most gun crime results from serial criminals who keep shooting people while they await trial is silly.

As for bonding out - is it your belief that people should be incarcerated for years before they've been convicted of a crime? That's pretty frightening IMO. If anything we keep too many people held before an actual conviction.
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Apparently the shootings involved Glock switches, which are already illegal. Unfortunately, when people face zero consequences for carrying and using illegal weapons, things like this happen.

I posted pages back about a man in Durham who was arrested after stealing a car and getting into a police chase. When he crashed and was arrested, police found an illegal gun in the car. The perp in question was a convicted felon who had already bonded out and was awaiting trial for shooting someone. Talk to anyone involved in the justice system and you’ll see that this is not uncommon. If Diddy can be held without bond, why can’t actual murderers or people who shoot other people?
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Apparently the shootings involved Glock switches, which are already illegal. Unfortunately, when people face zero consequences for carrying and using illegal weapons, things like this happen.

I posted pages back about a man in Durham who was arrested after stealing a car and getting into a police chase. When he crashed and was arrested, police found an illegal gun in the car. The perp in question was a convicted felon who had already bonded out and was awaiting trial for shooting someone. Talk to anyone involved in the justice system and you’ll see that this is not uncommon. If Diddy can be held without bond, why can’t actual murderers or people who shoot other people?
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How do you suggest we better police the possession of illegal guns? It's not like people are waiving them around publicly. Police can't randomly search people's cars and residences and person for illegal weapons without suspicion. IMO you have to deal with things like that at the source - with harsher penalties for the people who manufacture and sell things like that. But Republicans and their judicial allies consistently oppose and undermine such laws - see, for example, the Supreme Court striking down the bump stock ban.

Your idea of "harsher enforcement" simply isn't realistic. It is very difficult to know that a person possesses an illegal weapon until they use it. Suggesting that prosecuting people for murder after the fact simply is not a real attempt to deal with the epidemic of gun violence we have. You have to actually attempt to keep dangerous and illegal weapons from getting to people in the first place, not just rely on post-hoc criminal punishment.

Edit: and again, the idea that blanket holding of criminal suspects without bond (which is like some Nazi police state stuff) is any kind of big-picture solution is laughable. Again, I'm confident that no more than a tiny fraction of gun deaths are attributable to shooters who are out on bail.
 
Rock said:
You should let JD Vance know that.

PS. Seems like a bizarre take. Every shooter is mentally ill, full stop.
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I don't actually agree that every shooter is mentally ill.

I believe that is a negative for people who are actually mentally ill and have troubles or challenges controlling their thoughts.

Some of these idiots are fully aware of what they are doing, it shows from the multiple steps it takes to plan, purchase the equipment (Guns), and take the actions.

I believe that declaring all of them mentally ill makes it easier to follow JD's ignorant assertions that it is a part of life.
 
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