Mass Shooting & Gun Violence | Wisconsin school shooting today (4 victims plus shooter dead, more injured)

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Ramrouser said:
I was too snarky/mean/negative in my post regarding the point I was trying to make. I apologize.
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farce© said:
Why don't you just tell us the point you were attempting to make so there is no misunderstanding. Plain language usually works best.
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Every time there is a mass shooting now, some MAGA person on this forum tries to claim the shooter is a lefty, and transgendered.
Ramrouser will let it fade as the truth doesn’t fit his narrative. Just like every other single mass shooting other than maybe one.
 
nycfan said:


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Quick background from their wiki page:

“…In the wake of the Columbine High School massacre, it was revealed that lyrics to KMFDM songs ("Son of a Gun", "Stray Bullet", "Waste") were posted on the website of shooter Eric Harris,<a href="KMFDM - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>55<span>]</span></a> and that the date of the massacre, April 20, coincided with both the release date of the album Adios<a href="KMFDM - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>56<span>]</span></a> and the birthday of Adolf Hitler.<a href="KMFDM - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>57<span>]</span></a> Some journalists were quick to jump on the possibility that the actions of Harris and the other shooter, Dylan Klebold, were inspired by the violent entertainment and Nazism,<a href="KMFDM - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>58<span>]</span></a> though one wrote, "Lyrically, the band has written some songs that could easily be misconstrued by anyone lacking an ear for irony and looking for an excuse to commit violence."<a href="KMFDM - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>59<span>]</span></a> …”
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The “83 school shootings” line is very misleading.
 
No. I'll wait until more facts come out. I saw the shooter's statement published on X (with no community note) but it does need to be verified. If verified, it will support my position. I should have waited before posting this morning. But the way the authorities treated the Nashville shooter's manifesto does not give me confidence it will be verified anytime soon.
 
Ramrouser said:
No. I'll wait until more facts come out. I saw the shooter's statement published on X (with no community note) but it does need to be verified. If verified, it will support my position. I should have waited before posting this morning. But the way the authorities treated the Nashville shooter's manifesto does not give me confidence it will be verified anytime soon.
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That will be great if your position (what is your position?) is supported.

I know if my children are shot in school the only thing I’m going to care about is the shooter’s sexual preferences and political ideology. Thanks for staying focused on the important issues.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
The “83 school shootings” line is very misleading.
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Is it? I've seen a chart somewhere that identified this as the 83rd school shooting for 2024. While that certainly might be inaccurate, that tweet is not the only time I've seen 83 school shootings for 2024 (and 82 for 2023).
 
dcphx said:
Is it? I've seen a chart somewhere that identified this as the 83rd school shooting for 2024. While that certainly might be inaccurate, that tweet is not the only time I've seen 83 school shootings for 2024 (and 82 for 2023).
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Here's where it comes from and how CNN defines it. Seems really legit to me. Honestly it seems like a bit of an undercount because they wouldn't count the example of a person waving a gun or even pointing the gun at someone on school property but being shot by law enforcement before discharge.

"All incidents of gun violence are included if they occurred on school property, from kindergartens through colleges/universities, and at least one person was shot, not including the shooter. School property includes but is not limited to, buildings, fields, parking lots, stadiums and buses. Accidental discharges of firearms are included, as long as at least one person is shot, but not if the sole shooter is law enforcement or school security."

 
dcphx said:
Is it? I've seen a chart somewhere that identified this as the 83rd school shooting for 2024. While that certainly might be inaccurate, that tweet is not the only time I've seen 83 school shootings for 2024 (and 82 for 2023).
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Counts a lot of gang activity adjacent to school and after school hours as “school shootings”. Technically that is true, but that is also not what most people picture when they think of a school shooting. Kind of like when someone asks “is there a doctor in the house” and someone with a PhD in underwater mermaid linguistics chimes in.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Counts a lot of gang activity adjacent to school and after school hours as “school shootings”. Technically that is true, but that is also not what most people picture when they think of a school shooting. Kind of like when someone asks “is there a doctor in the house” and someone with a PhD in underwater mermaid linguistics chimes in.
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We shouldn't, as a culture, be required to have an Eskimo's understanding of snow as it relates to gun violence. Like, it shouldn't be so ubiquitous that you feel the need to parse those hairs. That's the problem, not the counting.
 
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StrangePackage said:
We shouldn't, as a culture, be required to have an Eskimo's understanding of snow as it relates to gun violence. Like, it shouldn't be so ubiquitous that you feel the need to pause those hairs. That's the problem, not the counting.
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I agree, but at the same time the intentional lack of context is misleading. If I say I experienced a fire in my house, you’d probably be sympathetic. If that fire in my house was nothing more than a candle that I lit and then blew out 10 minutes later, you’d probably laugh at me. But I know what reaction I can get by telling people that I was the victim of a fire. When people picture a school shooting, their mind goes to Parkland, Sandy Hook, Columbine. They don’t picture John and Mark meeting up in the parking lot at 3am in July and getting into a gun fight because they belong to rival gangs. Context is important.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
I agree, but at the same time the intentional lack of context is misleading. If I say I experienced a fire in my house, you’d probably be sympathetic. If that fire in my house was nothing more than a candle that I lit and then blew out 10 minutes later, you’d probably laugh at me. But I know what reaction I can get by telling people that I was the victim of a fire. When people picture a school shooting, their mind goes to Parkland, Sandy Hook, Columbine. They don’t picture John and Mark meeting up in the parking lot at 3am in July and getting into a gun fight because they belong to rival gangs. Context is important.
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Why should those be treated any differently? In both instances a student was killed by a gun on school grounds.
 
roostra said:
Why should those be treated any differently? In both instances a student was killed by a gun on school grounds.
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Most of them involve people who were shot (not killed) and were not students. But they should be treated differently because they are different phenomena with different root causes that require different actions to prevent. An active shooter hell bent on killing as many kids as possible is different from a drug dealer fighting with a rival in the parking lot outside of a basketball game. Gang violence is different than random rampages.

According to Everytown, Black teens are 18 times more likely to die from gun violence than White teens. Yet they aren’t dying en masse from mass shootings at schools. Failing to differentiate can lead to solutions that benefit more affluent groups and ignore the root causes of violence in disadvantaged communities.
 
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ZZLPHeels said:
Most of them involve people who were shot (not killed) and were not students. But they should be treated differently because they are different phenomena with different root causes that require different actions to prevent. An active shooter hell bent on killing as many kids as possible is different from a drug dealer fighting with a rival in the parking lot outside of a basketball game. Gang violence is different than random rampages.
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I somewhat see your point, but gang rivals fighting outside of a basketball game still puts a lot of innocent kids at risk. Maybe your example of school property at 3am would be different but as a parent or student, I'm going to feel less safe if they are blood stains in the school parking lot from last summer.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I somewhat see your point, but gang rivals fighting outside of a basketball game still puts a lot of innocent kids at risk. Maybe your example of school property at 3am would be different but as a parent or student, I'm going to feel less safe if they are blood stains in the school parking lot from last summer.
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And yet the solutions proposed to solve the less frequent issue (mass shootings at schools) would do little to nothing to make kids safer from the other 98% of “school shootings”. That’s why context matters. If my kid goes to school and most of the other kids there are carrying Glock switches, banning assault rifles isn’t going to make my kid safer at all.
 
Ramrouser said:
15 yr old female anti male lefty feminist (perhaps trans) with a manifesto Story will fade as it doesn’t meet the chosen narrative (like the trans Nashville shooting) Media wanted it to be a male, MAGA Christian Nationalist shooter.
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It meets the so-called 'lefty' narrative that a 15-year shouldn't have a loaded gun at school, or any other place, without adult supervision.
Her political, gender and or sexual preferences are immaterial. She was bullied.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
And yet the solutions proposed to solve the less frequent issue (mass shootings at schools) would do little to nothing to make kids safer from the other 98% of “school shootings”. That’s why context matters. If my kid goes to school and most of the other kids there are carrying Glock switches, banning assault rifles isn’t going to make my kid safer at all.
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I have my doubts that its 98% of shootings while kids aren't present. But agreed that gang shootings might be a different solution than kids having a crappy time shootings. Unless the solution is to get rid of guns.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
I agree, but at the same time the intentional lack of context is misleading. If I say I experienced a fire in my house, you’d probably be sympathetic. If that fire in my house was nothing more than a candle that I lit and then blew out 10 minutes later, you’d probably laugh at me. But I know what reaction I can get by telling people that I was the victim of a fire. When people picture a school shooting, their mind goes to Parkland, Sandy Hook, Columbine. They don’t picture John and Mark meeting up in the parking lot at 3am in July and getting into a gun fight because they belong to rival gangs. Context is important.
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Bullets from a gun don't hurt only when fired from the barrel of a mass shooter. Students have to be afraid of the violence that you're describing, either as the intended victims or as potential bystanders.

The fact that you feel it is dishonest because it doesn't conform to some arbitrary standard that you set based on how grossly obscene the violence in our culture has become is, if anything, a part of the problem rather than a good faith effort to find any type of solution, and you should feel bad for posting this.
 
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