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My greatest concern with all of this is represented by Ramrouser's response on the Kirk thread. We knew years ago Trump is an authoritarian. We knew he wants to use the power of the state to control everything and consolidate power in a (right wing) executive. We knew he would push the limits of the law and the constitution to the breaking point and beyond.

Our only hope was that Americans who identify as conservative, and especially those like Ramrouser who are in a position to (a) know, and (b) do something about it, would wake up to Trump's anti-conservatism and push back before it's too late. Alas, rather than defenses of free speech and constitutional norms, that group appears to be consolidating around "the markets decide." All without recognizing that Trump is actively, every day, using the power of the state to manipulate and control the "markets."

I'm not disappointed in Trump. I knew he would be this bad. I'm disappointed in the people who consider themselves conservatives but constantly find ways to defend and excuse Trump's obvious authoritarianism.
 
CNN may be next, but at least they're (sometimes) still calling it what it is.


Weaponize the levers of government for partisan political gain. Pressure privately owned media companies to toe the party line. Punish the owners who resist and reward the ones who acquiesce.

That’s how Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orbán consolidated control of the media in his country, according to scholars who witnessed Hungary’s democratic backsliding firsthand.

President Trump and his allies appear to be running the same playbook against media outlets in the US.
 
I'm just not seeing the cancellation of Colbert/Kimmel as all that significant or evidence of Trump's authoritarian reign. As has been discussed, these late night shows have greatly diminished audiences and are very expensive to produce. Everybody (including Trump) predicted Kimmel would be next since his audience is about the same as Colbert's. These shows have only themselves to blame since a decade ago they decided to narrow cast their comedy towards half the country instead of appealing to the country at large.

No one is preventing Colbert and Kimmel from pursuing another platform for their "speech." Likely both will land with shows on streaming services. Great, let the market speak.

The FCC's revoking of ABC's license was an empty threat. I am, however, not completely comfortable with the Trump administration working the refs as much as they're doing. No one likes to see it when it's not your team, see, e.g. K. You'll likely see the next Democratic President doing it as well.

What I think we're witnessing to today's environment is Trump pushing the boundaries of Executive Power. Presidents have been doing this for some time, with Congresses' acquiescence, but it has sped up during the last three administrations ("phone and a pen"/student loan forgiveness). At some point Congress will need to reassert itself.

All of this is to say is that I don't think this country is evolving into Hungary. It's a huge and diverse country with endless platforms to exercise free speech and loudly criticize the chief executive.
 
lawtig02 said:
CNN may be next, but at least they're (sometimes) still calling it what it is.


Weaponize the levers of government for partisan political gain. Pressure privately owned media companies to toe the party line. Punish the owners who resist and reward the ones who acquiesce.

That’s how Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orbán consolidated control of the media in his country, according to scholars who witnessed Hungary’s democratic backsliding firsthand.

President Trump and his allies appear to be running the same playbook against media outlets in the US.
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The FCC (read Government) is limited to how much sway they have over cable tv as opposed to broadcast tv. And they have zero (0) authority over internet streaming platforms. I think things are run differently in Hungary than they are here in the U.S..

Also, I think it’s easier to have a smaller country of a rather homogeneous populace kowtow down to a dictator. Given States’ Rights here in the good ol’ U.S. - something the right wingers and their SCOTUS have always espoused and cemented - makes that kowtowing more problematic. Also the diversity of the populace and something called the Constitution (the rights of which Hungary doesn’t have or ever had) would also provide obstacles for a Hungarian style take over of the continental U.S.

Or at least I’d like to believe…
 
Ramrouser said:
I'm just not seeing the cancellation of Colbert/Kimmel as all that significant or evidence of Trump's authoritarian reign. As has been discussed, these late night shows have greatly diminished audiences and are very expensive to produce. Everybody (including Trump) predicted Kimmel would be next since his audience is about the same as Colbert's. These shows have only themselves to blame since a decade ago they decided to narrow cast their comedy towards half the country instead of appealing to the country at large.

No one is preventing Colbert and Kimmel from pursuing another platform for their "speech." Likely both will land with shows on streaming services. Great, let the market speak.

The FCC's revoking of ABC's license was an empty threat. I am, however, not completely comfortable with the Trump administration working the refs as much as they're doing. No one likes to see it when it's not your team, see, e.g. K. You'll likely see the next Democratic President doing it as well.

What I think we're witnessing to today's environment is Trump pushing the boundaries of Executive Power. Presidents have been doing this for some time, with Congresses' acquiescence, but it has sped up during the last three administrations ("phone and a pen"/student loan forgiveness). At some point Congress will need to reassert itself.

All of this is to say is that I don't think this country is evolving into Hungary. It's a huge and diverse country with endless platforms to exercise free speech and loudly criticize the chief executive.
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Fair response. Thank you.

1. Have you seen any evidence ABC suspended/canceled Kimmel because of ratings? I have not. It seems clearly connected to the FCC's threats. Would you be willing to acknowledge the FCC should not be threatening the revocation of broadcast licenses to control speech? Whether or not the threat is "empty"?

2. I 100% agree Congress must reassert its constitutional powers. As of now, Dems have no power whatsoever in Congress, other than the very limited filibuster power in the Senate. Will you agree that at least for the next 14 months, the responsibility of Congress to reassert its power is ENTIRELY on the GOP?

3. Will you also acknowledge that the SCOTUS justices appointed by GOP presidents have VASTLY expanded the ability of the president to "push the boundaries of executive power"?

4. I agree we are a different country than Hungary. It will not be as easy for Trump to suppress all dissent in the US as it was for Orban in Hungary. But will you acknowledge that Trump appears to be using Orban's tactics in Hungary as a template for his efforts to consolidate executive power and suppress dissent in the United States? Whether he succeeds or not, will you acknowledge the similarities between Trump's approach and Orban's?
 
lawtig02 said:
CNN may be next, but at least they're (sometimes) still calling it what it is.


Weaponize the levers of government for partisan political gain. Pressure privately owned media companies to toe the party line. Punish the owners who resist and reward the ones who acquiesce.

That’s how Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orbán consolidated control of the media in his country, according to scholars who witnessed Hungary’s democratic backsliding firsthand.

President Trump and his allies appear to be running the same playbook against media outlets in the US.
Click to expand...
They will be muzzled soon. The dipshit who bought Time Warner and ran it into the ground is now planning on splitting WB back off from Discovery and Ellison Jr wants to buy it to merge with his new Paramount toy. We already know they'll do whatever it takes to get the mergers approved. They'll turn CNN into 24/7 coverage of a bunch of people standing around and cheering on Fox, Gogglebox style, if it means getting the merger greenlit.
 
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Centerpiece said:
The FCC (read Government) is limited to how much sway they have over cable tv as opposed to broadcast tv. And they have zero (0) authority over internet streaming platforms. I think things are run differently in Hungary than they are here in the U.S..

Also, I think it’s easier to have a smaller country of a rather homogeneous populace kowtow down to a dictator. Given States’ Rights here in the good ol’ U.S. - something the right wingers and their SCOTUS have always espoused and cemented - makes that kowtowing more problematic. Also the diversity of the populace and something called the Constitution (the rights of which Hungary doesn’t have or ever had) would also provide obstacles for a Hungarian style take over of the continental U.S.

Or at least I’d like to believe…
Click to expand...
Hungary had a Communist era Constitution that was heavily amended when the Iron Curtain fell to purge it of properties that created a monopower in government. Then Orbon's party had more than a 2/3 majority in their Parliament in 2011 and used this majority to throw out that Constitution and adopt a new one which.... created a monopower in government.
 
nycfan said:




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A couple of things, the Charlie Kirk fan club keeps talking about free speech yet they are doing everything in their power to shut down any commentary of conversation that doesn't treat Charlie as a god.

Second, it's sad that the cult doesn't realize how dangerous it is for the government to be controlling speech as they are trying to.
 
UNCatTech said:
A couple of things, the Charlie Kirk fan club keeps talking about free speech yet they are doing everything in their power to shut down any commentary of conversation that doesn't treat Charlie as a god.

Second, it's sad that the cult doesn't realize how dangerous it is for the government to be controlling speech as they are trying to.
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1. hypocrisy is the point in authoritarianism

2. people who cheer on dictators don't expect the dictators to ever turn on them. It doesn't take much to go from "yeah shut those liberals up..." to "hey we need more food or a change in leadership." Very easy for the people pointing the guns at the subjects of the taunts in the former case, to turn them on the latter group, but at the point it's too late. Took less than 18 months to go from the Reichstag Fire to the Night of the Long Knives. Many people celebrating the results of the first were found dead in the second.
 
lawtig02 said:
My greatest concern with all of this is represented by Ramrouser's response on the Kirk thread. We knew years ago Trump is an authoritarian. We knew he wants to use the power of the state to control everything and consolidate power in a (right wing) executive. We knew he would push the limits of the law and the constitution to the breaking point and beyond.

Our only hope was that Americans who identify as conservative, and especially those like Ramrouser who are in a position to (a) know, and (b) do something about it, would wake up to Trump's anti-conservatism and push back before it's too late. Alas, rather than defenses of free speech and constitutional norms, that group appears to be consolidating around "the markets decide." All without recognizing that Trump is actively, every day, using the power of the state to manipulate and control the "markets."

I'm not disappointed in Trump. I knew he would be this bad. I'm disappointed in the people who consider themselves conservatives but constantly find ways to defend and excuse Trump's obvious authoritarianism.
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If you’re waiting on Ramrouser to grow a brain and a backbone, you’re going to be waiting a long time.
 
Tar1978Heel said:
People have been cancelled before…


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I don't recall the president tweeting that either of these people should have been fired.

It's bigger than just people being fired, it's trumps constant involvement in so many things that he shouldn't be. The president shouldn't be strong arming and using mob boss tactics to extort money from companies and colleges or getting people fired.

It would be nice if he were capable of doing his actual job, instead of trying to cancel everyone and everything he doesn't like.

Just like his hatred of winf turbines because he could see one from his crappy golf course.
 
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