NBA thread

Healing said:
Either the Mavs GM is an utter imbecile, or there's much, much more to the story. I mean, KD was traded for Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, and FOUR 1st rounders, at ten years older.
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No, the “more to the story” is if Luka stays with the Mavs, he would be eligible for a $345 million super max deal after next season. The Mavs don’t want to invest that kind of money in a player who misses games because he doesn’t take care of his body like a professional. It is my understanding the locker room was down on Luka because he won’t stay in shape and if the Mavs drop that kind of cash on him and he misses a lot of games by his lack of discipline, they are sunk.

That super max deal is off the table after the trade, the max the Lakers can offer is $229 million so this trade potentially cost Luka $116 million. So the risk for the Lakers is substantially less than the risk would have been for the Mavs if Luka flames out.

As always, follow the money.
 
I don't understand why people are ignoring AD. The Mavs are getting a great player in return. AD is a candidate for runner-up DPOY (Wemby has the title on lockdown for a while), and he's been productive this year. So they are trading a superstar for a lesser superstar and a pick. Hardly an imbecilic move.

When you realize that this isn't mean to be a dump into rebuilding, but rather an attempt to stay competitive while transitioning, what other offers would be out there? It's not as if OKC will be trading SGA or Denver trading Jokic or anything of the sort. My guess is that AD was the best player the Mavs could get.

And finally, there are real questions about how valuable Doncic really is. His +/- numbers have never been particularly good. They aren't the be-all and end-all of stats, and can be misleading in some cases. But Doncic is a high-usage player who isn't all that efficient (I could be wrong about that), who doesn't play defense because he's out of shape, and who is a ball stopper extraordinaire. The Mavs offense with him and Kyrie is often "my turn, your turn."

I think this will end up being a bad trade for LA in the end, unless they can get Luka to work out and stop missing so much time with injuries. And I'm not sure about the fit between Lebron and Luka. The fact that they did this trade tells me that the Lakers expect Lebron to retire at year's end, or are at least prepping for the possibility.
 
farce© said:
No, the “more to the story” is if Luka stays with the Mavs, he would be eligible for a $345 million super max deal after next season. The Mavs don’t want to invest that kind of money in a player who misses games because he doesn’t take care of his body like a professional. It is my understanding the locker room was down on Luka because he won’t stay in shape and if the Mavs drop that kind of cash on him and he misses a lot of games by his lack of discipline, they are sunk.

That super max deal is off the table after the trade, the max the Lakers can offer is $229 million so this trade potentially cost Luka $116 million. So the risk for the Lakers is substantially less than the risk would have been for the Mavs if Luka flames out.
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Yes, I think this is correct. And the Mavs probably concluded that Luka will never get his ass in shape until he sees some consequences for it. Maybe that $116M will get his ass in gear, especially with Lebron (presumably) getting in his ear.
 
“I had a current NBA All-Star text me and say, ‘Do you know how much the Mavericks must hate Luka?’” –@WindhorstESPN on how the league is reacting to the Luka Doncic-Anthony Davis trade

 
superrific said:
I don't understand why people are ignoring AD. The Mavs are getting a great player in return. AD is a candidate for runner-up DPOY (Wemby has the title on lockdown for a while), and he's been productive this year. So they are trading a superstar for a lesser superstar and a pick. Hardly an imbecilic move.

When you realize that this isn't mean to be a dump into rebuilding, but rather an attempt to stay competitive while transitioning, what other offers would be out there? It's not as if OKC will be trading SGA or Denver trading Jokic or anything of the sort. My guess is that AD was the best player the Mavs could get.

And finally, there are real questions about how valuable Doncic really is. His +/- numbers have never been particularly good. They aren't the be-all and end-all of stats, and can be misleading in some cases. But Doncic is a high-usage player who isn't all that efficient (I could be wrong about that), who doesn't play defense because he's out of shape, and who is a ball stopper extraordinaire. The Mavs offense with him and Kyrie is often "my turn, your turn."

I think this will end up being a bad trade for LA in the end, unless they can get Luka to work out and stop missing so much time with injuries. And I'm not sure about the fit between Lebron and Luka. The fact that they did this trade tells me that the Lakers expect Lebron to retire at year's end, or are at least prepping for the possibility.
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Lotta truth here. AD playing the 4 next to Gafford or Lively is a nightmare for opposing teams. And AD playing pick and roll with Kyrie could be lethal. The Mavs just got better in the short term and relieved themselves of a potential albatross around their future neck. But the Mavs better win soon….Kyrie and AD aren’t getting any younger.
 
Luka is a top 5 player in the league and is 25 years old. You can’t cite concerns about durability and fitness as the reason for trading him and only get back AD (who is 6 years older and has a much worse injury history btw) and 1 future first.

There’s a reason Mavs fans are so upset and that the trade is getting panned almost across the board. It’s asinine. Would be like the Bills trading Josh Allen to the Cowboys for CeeDee Lamb and a future first.
 
farce© said:
No, the “more to the story” is if Luka stays with the Mavs, he would be eligible for a $345 million super max deal after next season. The Mavs don’t want to invest that kind of money in a player who misses games because he doesn’t take care of his body like a professional. It is my understanding the locker room was down on Luka because he won’t stay in shape and if the Mavs drop that kind of cash on him and he misses a lot of games by his lack of discipline, they are sunk.

That super max deal is off the table after the trade, the max the Lakers can offer is $229 million so this trade potentially cost Luka $116 million. So the risk for the Lakers is substantially less than the risk would have been for the Mavs if Luka flames out.

As always, follow the money.
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The super max plays into the decision to trade him. Conditioning plays into the decision to trade him. Neither dictate taking 60 cents on the dollar for a 25 year old, 5x first team all NBA, who has carried a team to two WCF and one finals appearance. There's no defending what they got back, unless there's more to the story.

Recent precedent:
  • KD for Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson and five first, at 35 years old
  • Mikal Bridges for five first rounders
  • Donovan Mitchell for Markkanen, two other rotation players, and three unprotected firsts
  • KAT for Julius Randle, Divencenzo (better than Max Christie), and a first
On the surface, Luka is a much better trade asset than any of the star players above, yet from a pure return asset valuation, Luka arguably returned the least impressive haul (sans Minnesota).

Anthony Davis is a very good play; AD is also about to turn 32 and has a terrible reliability history. Max Christie is a 7th-8th guy on a contender, with potential to be ... ? Herb Jones? Sam Vecine said Christie would go for the 25th pick, at best, on the open market.

Again, I'm not arguing against trading Luka, but for Dallas to only get a 32 yo AD and ONE first rounder is utter malpractice ... or something else.
 
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Healing said:
The super max plays into the decision to trade him. Conditioning plays into the decision to trade him. Neither dictate taking 60 cents on the dollar for a 25 year old, 5x first team all NBA, who has carried a team to two WCF and one finals appearance. There's no defending what they got back, unless there's more to the story.

Recent precedent:
  • KD for Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson and five first, at 35 years old
  • Mikal Bridges for five first rounders
  • Donovan Mitchell for Markkanen, two other rotation players, and three unprotected firsts
  • KAT for Julius Randle, Divencenzo (better than Max Christie), and a first
On the surface, Luka is a better trade asset than any of the star players above, yet from a pure return asset valuation, Luka arguably returned the least impressive haul (sans Minnesota).

Anthony Davis is a very good play; AD is also about to turn 32 and has a terrible reliability history. Max Christie is a 7th-8th guy on a contender, with potential to be ... ? Herb Jones? Sam Vecine said Christie would go for the 25th pick, at best, on the open market.

Again, I'm not arguing against trading Luka, but for Dallas to only get a 32 yo AD and ONE first rounder is utter malpractice ... or something else.
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The problem with these analyses is that they assume the existence of other teams who are willing to pay more. But who would? What star player could they land? It's easy to tout the deal that you think is there but isn't.

The Mavs are now owned by Adelsons (who don't give a fuck about the future) and Mark Cuban, who is apparently tired of owning an NBA team. They want to win now.
 
superrific said:
The problem with these analyses is that they assume the existence of other teams who are willing to pay more. But who would? What star player could they land? It's easy to tout the deal that you think is there but isn't.

The Mavs are now owned by Adelsons (who don't give a fuck about the future) and Mark Cuban, who is apparently tired of owning an NBA team. They want to win now.
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If the Adelsons want to win now, they just created a team that looks like a 3-6 seed, for the next two seasons, and is led by two mid 30s stars whose histories are riddled with injuries and idiocy. I doubt Nico Harrison was bulldozed by Miriam, but I predict he'll want to claim he was, off the record, in a year or two.

The NBA media is widely reporting Dallas didn't shop Luka, at all. GMs across the league are reporting utter shock, off the record. To only get AD and one first, without leveraging offers from other teams is asinine, or, like my contention from the very beginning "unless there's more to the story." On a pure surface level asset for asset review, the Lakers won this trade in resounding fashion. It is amongst the worst returns for a star in ???? years.
 
Healing said:
If the Adelsons want to win now, they just created a team that looks like a 3-6 seed, for the next two seasons, and is led by two mid 30s stars whose histories are riddled with injuries and idiocy. I doubt Nico Harrison was bulldozed by Miriam, but I predict he'll want to claim he was, off the record, in a year or two.

The NBA media is widely reporting Dallas didn't shop Luka, at all. GMs across the league are reporting utter shock, off the record. To only get AD and one first, without leveraging offers from other teams is asinine, or, like my contention from the very beginning "unless there's more to the story." On a pure surface level asset for asset review, the Lakers won this trade in resounding fashion. It is amongst the worst returns for a star in ???? years.
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Maybe you're right. I'm not going to pay enough attention to form a useful opinion. The Mavs are not known to be a stupid franchise, so I'm skeptical that the stupidity is as profound as everyone thinks.
 
Davis played 76 games last year but the last several years he has played 56, 40, 36, 62, and 56. Dallas will likely not want to extend his deal in a few years and will thus need to trade him relatively soon if they plan to sell high. The Lakers need to get out of the Clutch business and trade Lebron (and Bronny) for the best deal they can get from GS. The young talent, assets piles, and seemingly strong management in Houston and OKC may make all of this less meaningful than it seems.
 
Healing said:
If the Adelsons want to win now, they just created a team that looks like a 3-6 seed, for the next two seasons, and is led by two mid 30s stars whose histories are riddled with injuries and idiocy. I doubt Nico Harrison was bulldozed by Miriam, but I predict he'll want to claim he was, off the record, in a year or two.

The NBA media is widely reporting Dallas didn't shop Luka, at all. GMs across the league are reporting utter shock, off the record. To only get AD and one first, without leveraging offers from other teams is asinine, or, like my contention from the very beginning "unless there's more to the story." On a pure surface level asset for asset review, the Lakers won this trade in resounding fashion. It is amongst the worst returns for a star in ???? years.
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The Mavericks also have very few assets going forward. Falling off after the 25-26 season would be disastrous as they either traded or have swaps on their first rounders from 27 through 30. I can understand wanting to win now with OKC, Houston, and SA looking to be a tough road through the West in the future, but it seems clear to me that Dallas made a lot of moves under the assumption that they would be at least OK with Luka for a long time.
 
Meanwhile the Mavs gave up 50 in the first quarter and 91 at the half at Cleveland - currently playing a summer league roster LOL.
 
Lando said:
The Mavericks also have very few assets going forward. Falling off after the 25-26 season would be disastrous as they either traded or have swaps on their first rounders from 27 through 30. I can understand wanting to win now with OKC, Houston, and SA looking to be a tough road through the West in the future, but it seems clear to me that Dallas made a lot of moves under the assumption that they would be at least OK with Luka for a long time.
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Exactly. Dallas already sacrificed future flexibility to build around Luka and Kyrie, surrounded by complementary players like Washington, Gafford, Lively. To offload Luka and at best marginally improve for 1 or 2 seasons, while also not getting your future assets back, is shocking. At a minimum, Dallas should've gotten the Lakers 2029 and 2031 picks along with AD and Christie.

Fwiw, my media consumption has been Simmons, Russillo, Windhorst, MacMahon, Sam Vecine, Charania, and they are universally reporting (as of about 8am) Dallas didn't leverage other offers, at all.
 
farce© said:
No, the “more to the story” is if Luka stays with the Mavs, he would be eligible for a $345 million super max deal after next season. The Mavs don’t want to invest that kind of money in a player who misses games because he doesn’t take care of his body like a professional. It is my understanding the locker room was down on Luka because he won’t stay in shape and if the Mavs drop that kind of cash on him and he misses a lot of games by his lack of discipline, they are sunk.

That super max deal is off the table after the trade, the max the Lakers can offer is $229 million so this trade potentially cost Luka $116 million. So the risk for the Lakers is substantially less than the risk would have been for the Mavs if Luka flames out.

As always, follow the money.
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They still should have gotten more.
 
Fox to the Spurs, who didn't have to give up much, looks like a big win for them. It also increases Coby White's scoring potential for the Bulls.
 
Heelsandeers said:
Not sure what it is but I've watched close to 0 mins of NBA to start the season. Normally watch and keep up with the league as early as October
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Planning to start back up here in Feb. Hopefully catch a deal on league pass. Just looking at the standings and liking what I see with all the young teams at the top. Didn't realize Memphis was having such a good year

I've watched OKC/CLE for a while so no surprises there. Glad Cleveland started to finally realize its potential. Though getting it done in May is still a different story

What have the Knicks with KAT looked like? Fans come to terms with the trade yet? Pacers having another solid year but seem mostly stagnant. Nice to see Houston has taken a leap
 
Heelsandeers said:
What have the Knicks with KAT looked like?
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KAT has been a revelation for the Knicks. His willing passing, ball movement, and effort has shown a bright light on how mismatched Brunson was with Randle. KAT is second in the league in rebounding and shooting 42% from 3.
 
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