On the OU philosophy paper scandal

[heelinhell]

Math 31, 32, 33, 34 (and maybe 30) were Calculus and Differential Equations classes in the mid-‘80’s.

I don’t think class numbers or names had changed much since the late ‘60’s (maybe earlier). My Dad taught a hard science “11” (intro class) since 1967 and well into the late ‘80’s, if not early ‘90’s.

I took Math 15 in 1970 in order to avoid Math 31

 

[ChapelHillSooner]

Back on topic, I wonder if it would be more palatable if the university president came out and said that Ms. Fulnecky clearly set a trap and that the TA walked into it. The university does not feel that the paper was collegiate level work and deserved a failing grade but university employees have an obligation to understand the current political climate and avoid falling for such a trap by giving a score of zero.

Basically an admission that this is a political question not an academic one.

Maybe that would make things worse all around and piss off both the fundamentalists as well as professors/TA’s but it would make me feel a bit better about it.

I do think universities will begin to train people on how to handle issues like this because MAGA isn’t going away. Professors will be taught to tread carefully (though I think this TA did for the most part) and never give a zero for a paper that appears to be a set up.

I am also guessing that the TA was offered a pretty substantial package to avoid a lawsuit. If so I don’t think she took it.

 

[superrific]

Back on topic, I wonder if it would be more palatable if the university president came out and said that Ms. Fulnecky clearly set a trap and that the TA walked into it. The university does not feel that the paper was collegiate level work and deserved a failing grade but university employees have an obligation to understand the current political climate and avoid falling for such a trap by giving a score of zero.

Basically an admission that this is a political question not an academic one.

Maybe that would make things worse all around and piss off both the fundamentalists as well as professors/TA’s but it would make me feel a bit better about it.

I do think universities will begin to train people on how to handle issues like this because MAGA isn’t going away. Professors will be taught to tread carefully (though I think this TA did for the most part) and never give a zero for a paper that appears to be a set up.

I am also guessing that the TA was offered a pretty substantial package to avoid a lawsuit. If so I don’t think she took it.

I am guessing the TA was told to go f herself. I think you have a vision of Oklahoma that is out of date. It reminds me of my wife's summer camp. She grew up Free Methodist and went to a Free Methodist summer camp/bible camp. She loved it even though she was a bit iffy about the fundamentalism. Fast forward to when I met her -- she was now UCC, very liberal, but was taking her kids to the same summer camp. They were mostly able to avoid talking about anything contentious.

Then the pandemic. Summer of 2021, I told her -- I don't think you can go back to the camp. It is going to be horrible. She was like, "I know these people, they are good." I said, "do statistics lie? Because I'm seeing that 35% of evangelicals think Covid was a conspiracy and the vaccine is mind control." "But these are my people," she said.

She and her kids came home after two days and never went back. She told me she knew I was right, but was hoping I was wrong.

Not that I know a lot about Oklahoma, but I can see the politics in that state from afar. Given the following two options, I would consider #2 to be much more likely:

1. They wanted to do something for the TA but the political pressure was too much;
2. They were glad to get rid of her and maybe had been trying for some time.

 

[donbosco]

@ChapelHillSooner wrote: “I do think universities will begin to train people on how to handle issues like this because MAGA isn’t going away. Professors will be taught to tread carefully (though I think this TA did for the most part) and never give a zero for a paper that appears to be a set up.”

The extent to which this sort of thing happens will be an effort by faculty (and grad students). Admins are now either MAGA or themselves in the same boat (up Shit Creek) as faculty. I’ll add that faculty at 99% of the country’s campuses will need to work covertly (or at least very, very quietly) for the foreseeable future.

 

[ChapelHillSooner]

I am guessing the TA was told to go f herself. I think you have a vision of Oklahoma that is out of date. It reminds me of my wife's summer camp. She grew up Free Methodist and went to a Free Methodist summer camp/bible camp. She loved it even though she was a bit iffy about the fundamentalism. Fast forward to when I met her -- she was now UCC, very liberal, but was taking her kids to the same summer camp. They were mostly able to avoid talking about anything contentious.

Then the pandemic. Summer of 2021, I told her -- I don't think you can go back to the camp. It is going to be horrible. She was like, "I know these people, they are good." I said, "do statistics lie? Because I'm seeing that 35% of evangelicals think Covid was a conspiracy and the vaccine is mind control." "But these are my people," she said.

She and her kids came home after two days and never went back. She told me she knew I was right, but was hoping I was wrong.

Not that I know a lot about Oklahoma, but I can see the politics in that state from afar. Given the following two options, I would consider #2 to be much more likely:

1. They wanted to do something for the TA but the political pressure was too much;
2. They were glad to get rid of her and maybe had been trying for some time.

You are probably right. It has always been a conservative state but they elected plenty of democrats back in the day and not just the conservative variety.

I hope the OU administration is not that way. It was just a few years ago when David Boren resigned as university president. If people remember his political career, he was pretty liberal.

But the likes of David Boren and Mike Synar have no chance in today’s Oklahoma.

 

[JCTarheel82]

You guys have weird numbering.

We had four digit numbers for all classes. First digit was approximate year (1 a freshman, etc). That is pretty common. Last digit was credit hours which is far less common but kind of handy.

They've changed the course numbering to a more conventional system since @05C40 was in college

In fact, it's been changed since I was in Chapel Hill in the mid 2000s.

 

[donbosco]

@ChapelHillSooner wrote: “I do think universities will begin to train people on how to handle issues like this because MAGA isn’t going away. Professors will be taught to tread carefully (though I think this TA did for the most part) and never give a zero for a paper that appears to be a set up.”

The extent to which this sort of thing happens will be an effort by faculty (and grad students). Admins are now either MAGA or themselves in the same boat (up Shit Creek) as faculty. I’ll add that faculty at 99% of the country’s campuses will need to work covertly (or at least very, very quietly) for the foreseeable future.

How is the U of Oklahoma run above the Chancellor level? Do they have a Board of Governors analogous to the UNC System overlords?

 

[ChapelHillSooner]

How is the U of Oklahoma run above the Chancellor level? Do they have a Board of Governors analogous to the UNC System overlords?

There is no chancellor. The university president is the equivalent of the UNC chancellor. I think the distinction is because there isn't a University of Oklahoma system like in NC, California, Texas, etc.

They are governed by a board of regents which does govern two other smaller universities. I don't think that was the case when I was in school and I can't really pinpoint how those two universities were chosen. I did know they governed one of the others.

I think the board of regents that is over Oklahoma State is a little more clear. I believe the universities it oversees all have ag schools.

Ironically, the Oklahoma State Board of Regents oversees a lot of regional (directional) schools but not Oklahoma State University itself.

I'm just now learning some of this.


Final footnote: In case people don't know, OU is the University of Oklahoma. It is never Oklahoma University, and I get really pissed off when broadcasters call it that because they should learn the proper name. I get extra pissed when OU fans call it that. I get extra extra pissed when students or alumni call it that. I don't care that others mess it up because it is rightly confusing.

And if you want to know why it is OU instead of UO, I can't tell you but I can say that that pattern holds for all of the non-state schools in the old Big 8 (RIP) - Nebraska, Oklahoma, Missouri, Colorado, and Kansas all use this pattern.