RFK Jr, HHs & MAHA News | Chaos at HHS

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Huh? said:
RFK serves two purposes to this administration.

1. He increased their base with the MAHA folks that incrementally move the needle toward the GOP in toss-up states. As long as he continues to poll positively with people in that narrow window, this administration will have his back.

2. He's another means of sticking it to the entrenched elite, which degrades the ability of their enemies to put forward alternative sources of truth.

As long as he keeps polling well with the MAHA crowd and their base, they'll still back him.
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And also Trump hates science because it is an independent source of truth.
 
superrific said:
How can you say that when he always denies saying what he has said in public, TV interviews?
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I just explained it in the rest of my post that followed what you quoted, but you cut off.

I really think he believes what he is saying every time out, and in his warped thinking he subconsciously wriggles his way into or out of positions by latching onto loopholes or subtle nuances in those exchanges. He loses the forest for the trees. But I think he believes most if not all of what he says, despite how it might be glaringly contradictory to everyone else.

I don’t buy that he’s a sociopath at all. I think he’s a very passionate crusader in his own mind, and full of empathy — not at all lacking it, which is the #1 sign of antisocial behavior (like sociopathy). It’s not that… He actually believes he’s saving kids and saving lives.

I suspect it’s some kind of delusional disorder that lends itself to the conspiratorial “me against the world” grandiose kind of thinking. He’s a Kennedy, he’s been told since forever that he’s American royalty. It’s a perfect storm for that warped mindset and the kind of delusion he displays and spews. But he believes every bit of it, and he believes he is fighting the good fight.

I don’t believe he’s a malevolent person. But ultimately it doesn’t matter, because that doesn’t make him any less dangerous than someone like trump, who clearly is malevolent.
 
duluoz said:
I just explained it in the rest of my post that followed what you quoted, but you cut off.

I really think he believes what he is saying every time out, and in his warped thinking he subconsciously wriggles his way into or out of positions by latching onto loopholes or subtle nuances in those exchanges. He loses the forest for the trees. But I think he believes most if not all of what he says, despite how it might be glaringly contradictory to everyone else.

I don’t buy that he’s a sociopath at all. I think he’s a very passionate crusader in his own mind, and full of empathy — not at all lacking it, which is the #1 sign of antisocial behavior (like sociopathy). It’s not that… He actually believes he’s saving kids and saving lives.

I suspect it’s some kind of delusional disorder that lends itself to the conspiratorial “me against the world” grandiose kind of thinking. He’s a Kennedy, he’s been told since forever that he’s American royalty. It’s a perfect storm for that warped mindset and the kind of delusion he displays and spews. But he believes every bit of it, and he believes he is fighting the good fight.
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Aren't you basically trivializing the whole concept of a lie? Every lie can be cast as "sincerely believing in the moment that the untruth is true." What makes you think Trump is lying and not RFK? Or do you think Trump also sincerely believes in his warped mind that it's true? If this is the way out of an accusation of lying, then we will need to shelve lying as a relevant concept.

I also have seen absolutely nothing from Kennedy to suggest that he has any empathy. Empathy requires regret for misdeeds. I have never heard him admit ever that he was wrong. He doesn't even admit that kids died from his measles bullshit in Samoa.
 
Caroline Kennedy disagrees with your assessment that he has empathy. In fact, she called him a predator.

Carolin Kennedy letter to Congress

Key excerpt:

I have known Bobby my whole life; we grew up together. It’s no surprise that he keeps birds of prey as pets because he himself is a predator. He has always been charismatic — able to attract others through the strength of his personality, willingness to take risks and break the rules. I watched his younger brothers and cousins follow him down the path of drug addiction. His basement, his garage, and his dorm room were the centers of the action where drugs were available, and he enjoyed showing off how he put baby chickens and mice in the blender to feed his hawks. It was often a perverse scene of despair and violence.

Of course, people can grow and change. Through his own strength — and the many second chances he was given by people who felt sorry for the boy who had lost his father — Bobby was able to pull himself out of illness and disease. I admire the discipline that took and the continuing commitment it requires.

But siblings and cousins who Bobby encouraged down the path of substance abused suffered addiction, illness, and death while Bobby has gone to to misrepresent, lie, and cheat his way through life. Today, while he may encourage a younger generation to attend AA meetings, Bobby is addicted to attention and power.
 
superrific said:
Aren't you basically trivializing the whole concept of a lie? Every lie can be cast as "sincerely believing in the moment that the untruth is true." What makes you think Trump is lying and not RFK? Or do you think Trump also sincerely believes in his warped mind that it's true? If this is the way out of an accusation of lying, then we will need to shelve lying as a relevant concept.

I also have seen absolutely nothing from Kennedy to suggest that he has any empathy. Empathy requires regret for misdeeds. I have never heard him admit ever that he was wrong. He doesn't even admit that kids died from his measles bullshit in Samoa.
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How would I be trivializing the concept of lies while I’m proffering a guess for how this guy arrives at his lies, and that guess is some type of delusional disorder wherein he believes he isn’t lying? He is clearly mentally ill, dangerously so. If a paranoid schizophrenic believes he is a cat and tells you he is a cat, is he lying? Or is that some other dynamic that is not as easily explained as neatly terming it a “lie?” A lie is an intentionally false or deceptive statement. It’s not simply stating something that is objectively not true, but rather intentionally doing so in order to deceive.

So while we can all read into his endless contradictory statements as lies, I believe there’s something else going on there driven by his mental illness. That’s clear to me. If it’s not to you, I dont care to explain further.

Regarding empathy, what is an anti-vax crusade like his if not empathetic? If he were sitting on all this great anti-vax information he thinks he has discovered but yet had no empathy, he’d refuse any vax himself and let the rest of the world die from them. Empathy is a key ingredient for an imagined crusader like him. Tragically and dangerously misguided as he is, he’s not without empathy.
 
duluoz said:
How would I be trivializing the concept of lies while I’m proffering a guess for how this guy arrives at his lies, and that guess is some type of delusional disorder wherein he believes he isn’t lying? He is clearly mentally ill, dangerously so. If a paranoid schizophrenic believes he is a cat and tells you he is a cat, is he lying? Or is that some other dynamic that is not as easily explained as neatly terming it a “lie?” A lie is an intentionally false or deceptive statement. It’s not simply stating something that is objectively not true, but rather intentionally doing so in order to deceive.

So while we can all read into his endless contradictory statements as lies, there’s something else going on there driven by his mental illness. That’s clear to me. If it’s not to you, I dont care to explain further.

Regarding empathy, what is an anti-vax crusade like his if not empathetic? If he were sitting on all this great anti-vax information he thinks he has discovered but yet had no empathy, he’d refuse any vax himself and let the rest of the world die from them. Empathy is a key ingredient for an imagined crusader like him. Tragically and dangerously misguided as he is, he’s not without empathy.
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I don't want to go far afield here, but how can you possibly distinguish the liar from the delusional? If you want to say both are bad and equally so, fine I'm on board with that. But at that point it's a distinction without a difference. It's also true -- and most likely true -- that he is both.

As for empathy, you've gone badly astray. It is not just wanting to do good. By that measure, Mao had empathy because he wanted to build a communist utopia for people. Empathy actually is: the ability to enter into or simulate another person’s perspective — to feel what they feel (emotional empathy) or to understand what they feel (cognitive empathy). Forcing shit down someone's throat is not empathy, even if it is good for them.
 
Huh? said:
Caroline Kennedy disagrees with your assessment that he has empathy. In fact, she called him a predator.

Carolin Kennedy letter to Congress

Key excerpt:

I have known Bobby my whole life; we grew up together. It’s no surprise that he keeps birds of prey as pets because he himself is a predator. He has always been charismatic — able to attract others through the strength of his personality, willingness to take risks and break the rules. I watched his younger brothers and cousins follow him down the path of drug addiction. His basement, his garage, and his dorm room were the centers of the action where drugs were available, and he enjoyed showing off how he put baby chickens and mice in the blender to feed his hawks. It was often a perverse scene of despair and violence.

Of course, people can grow and change. Through his own strength — and the many second chances he was given by people who felt sorry for the boy who had lost his father — Bobby was able to pull himself out of illness and disease. I admire the discipline that took and the continuing commitment it requires.

But siblings and cousins who Bobby encouraged down the path of substance abused suffered addiction, illness, and death while Bobby has gone to to misrepresent, lie, and cheat his way through life. Today, while he may encourage a younger generation to attend AA meetings, Bobby is addicted to attention and power.
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Yeah it’s not a zero sum game as I’d assume you know. There’s a whole lot that goes into a disaster of a human like him, and a whole lot to what comes out of him.

I don’t know what he did to turn his life around as she alluded to (and don’t much care), and it’s possible that stuff like encouraging troubled young people to attend AA is just a cover or pseudo-empathy common with anti-socials, and possible the anti-vax crusade is more about fame and notoriety than pure conviction. I happen to think it’s a big messy blend. But I do think empathy is present, warped and misguided as it is.
 
Thom, you knew this was coming. Asshole.


GOP Sen. Thom Tillis said he does “not yet” regret his vote to confirm Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., but warned of the impact of the “rhetoric” coming out of the agency that he now leads.

Tillis told CNN that HHS messaging under Kennedy is “part of the inspiration” for Florida moving to eliminate childhood vaccine mandates, and “it wouldn’t surprise” him if taking that step becomes a “price of admission” for red states.

“It’s dangerous,” he said, explaining that he reminds his colleagues that “we walk around this building in suits” and have access to the internet and scientific research to help make informed decisions, “but the people I grew up with may not. They may actually look at somebody saying the scientists are lying, the vaccines are dangerous.”

“That is a very dangerous perception for people who don’t have the resources or what’s necessary for them to make informed decisions and there are people that grew up at the lower end of the strata, which I’m pretty certain over the life of Mr. Kennedy’s, he’s never been in that strata,” he continued.

The North Carolina Republican, who announced earlier this year he would not seek reelection, said he would have a more definitive answer on whether he regrets backing Kennedy’s nomination after he has responses from the secretary to “about five or six very, very, very important issues.”
 
superrific said:
I don't want to go far afield here, but how can you possibly distinguish the liar from the delusional? If you want to say both are bad and equally so, fine I'm on board with that. But at that point it's a distinction without a difference. It's also true -- and most likely true -- that he is both.

As for empathy, you've gone badly astray. It is not just wanting to do good. By that measure, Mao had empathy because he wanted to build a communist utopia for people. Empathy actually is: the ability to enter into or simulate another person’s perspective — to feel what they feel (emotional empathy) or to understand what they feel (cognitive empathy). Forcing shit down someone's throat is not empathy, even if it is good for them.
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Well I know that you can argue semantics all day and night long, and somehow have the time and desire to do so, but I don’t. I’m not going to further split hairs with you over the nuances of terms like lies and empathy.

Mostly I pity the guy, and want him far removed from any position of influence… and I think he’s a disastrous yet fascinating example of how far we are off the rails. But unlike trump, I don’t think he’s as easily dismissed as a rotten person. He may have been or may still be a rotten person, I’m just sympathetic enough to his mental illness to leave benefit of the doubt.
 
Huh? said:
As long as he keeps polling well with the MAHA crowd and their base, they'll still back him.
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If Trump's approval starts to dip below 35% with respondents citing RFK policies, MAHA won't be enough to save RFK's job. Until then, he's safe.
 
lawtig02 said:
Thom, you knew this was coming. Asshole.


GOP Sen. Thom Tillis said he does “not yet” regret his vote to confirm Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., but warned of the impact of the “rhetoric” coming out of the agency that he now leads.

Tillis told CNN that HHS messaging under Kennedy is “part of the inspiration” for Florida moving to eliminate childhood vaccine mandates, and “it wouldn’t surprise” him if taking that step becomes a “price of admission” for red states.

“It’s dangerous,” he said, explaining that he reminds his colleagues that “we walk around this building in suits” and have access to the internet and scientific research to help make informed decisions, “but the people I grew up with may not. They may actually look at somebody saying the scientists are lying, the vaccines are dangerous.”

“That is a very dangerous perception for people who don’t have the resources or what’s necessary for them to make informed decisions and there are people that grew up at the lower end of the strata, which I’m pretty certain over the life of Mr. Kennedy’s, he’s never been in that strata,” he continued.

The North Carolina Republican, who announced earlier this year he would not seek reelection, said he would have a more definitive answer on whether he regrets backing Kennedy’s nomination after he has responses from the secretary to “about five or six very, very, very important issues.”
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Fuck Tillis. Basically admits that the elected republicans are just playing a game
 
lawtig02 said:
Thom, you knew this was coming. Asshole.


GOP Sen. Thom Tillis said he does “not yet” regret his vote to confirm Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., but warned of the impact of the “rhetoric” coming out of the agency that he now leads.

Tillis told CNN that HHS messaging under Kennedy is “part of the inspiration” for Florida moving to eliminate childhood vaccine mandates, and “it wouldn’t surprise” him if taking that step becomes a “price of admission” for red states.

“It’s dangerous,” he said, explaining that he reminds his colleagues that “we walk around this building in suits” and have access to the internet and scientific research to help make informed decisions, “but the people I grew up with may not. They may actually look at somebody saying the scientists are lying, the vaccines are dangerous.”

“That is a very dangerous perception for people who don’t have the resources or what’s necessary for them to make informed decisions and there are people that grew up at the lower end of the strata, which I’m pretty certain over the life of Mr. Kennedy’s, he’s never been in that strata,” he continued.

The North Carolina Republican, who announced earlier this year he would not seek reelection, said he would have a more definitive answer on whether he regrets backing Kennedy’s nomination after he has responses from the secretary to “about five or six very, very, very important issues.”
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Feels a bit like something Susan Collins would say, I guess he's now pandering to his personal family members since he won't be running next time.
 


Does he really think only undocumented immigrants get the measles? Or that the Texas outbreak was only immigrants? Because it is really easy to find out that is not true.
 
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